Ep #107: Your Questions Answered: All Things 5K Training with Jen Lamplough

Welcome to The Not Your Average Runner Podcast. If you’re a woman who is midlife and plus sized and you want to start running but don’t know how, or if it’s even possible, you’re in the right place. Using proven strategies and real-life experience, certified running and life coach Jill Angie shares how you can learn to run in the body you have right now.

Jill: You are listening to episode 107 of The Not Your Average Runner Podcast. I’m your host, Jill Angie, and I am here today with the absolutely amazing Jennifer Lamplough and we are going to talk all about your questions about 5K training. Hey Jen.

Jen: Hey.

Jill: How’s it going?

Jen: I’m great. I’m always so happy when I get to talk to you on the podcast. Makes me so happy. I’m always happy when I get to talk to you any time, but especially on the podcast.

Jill: Same here. We get to see each other in – is it three weeks or four weeks?

Jen: Four weeks.

Jill: I guess four weeks because we’re doing Ragnar.

Jen: I know. I can’t believe it. I can’t believe it. I feel like we’ve been talking about it forever.

Jill: I know, and I just wrote an email to the whole podcast email list about how I’m kind of scared shitless about this race and I’m doing it anyway because I feel like life is short and you should do the hard, crazy shit. But seriously, what were we thinking?

Jen: I don’t know. I’m really hoping it’s going to like, help me get over some phobias about being outside and in the dark and that kind of stuff. I’m not afraid of being outside but like, nature things and being in the dark.

Jill: I’m afraid of the dark. We can hold hands while we’re running if we need to.

Jen: Okay, good. I just think I’m so excited about it and I’m nervous about it but such a good nervous, and I can’t imagine not doing it now. I can’t imagine not having this to look forward to because it’s so out of my comfort zone, I know it’s out of your comfort zone, and how often do we get the gift of being able to really be pushed out of our comfort zone?

Jill: Yeah, I could not agree more. And I mean, because there’s been moments when I’ve thought maybe the race will be canceled and then I won’t have to do it because obviously if it’s on, I’m showing up. But then I thought like, if I don’t do this race, I’m going to feel terrible because I’m always going to wonder if I could have done it. And so now I feel like the gauntlet has been thrown like, there’s no – we are going to do this come hell or high water. I think it’s going to be amazing.

Jen: I agree. I felt that way about the marathon too. Now that I said I’m doing a marathon, I can’t not do it. How would I feel if I said I was doing it and then just decided not to?

Jill: Right, exactly. I’m right there with you. So what do you think you’re looking forward to the most with Ragnar? You guys, we’re going to get to 5K training in a moment, but we do need to do our momentary panic together.

Jen: We had our coaching call for the group today and we were like, okay, it’s a month out, what are everybody’s thoughts about it being a month away? And a lot of like, people saying abject terror.

Jill: There’s 16 of us all equally terrified, except for Gail. I don’t think Gail’s terrified. She’s such a – she’s ex-military, she runs in the woods all the time. She’s like, yeah, I got this.

Jen: Gail’s not afraid of anything. I think that I’m most excited about what I just said. Really truly being out of my comfort zone because we don’t put ourselves outside of our comfort zone very often. Maybe a little here and there, but not to this degree, and so I’m just really excited to see how I show up for it and how I react to it, and of course, everybody being together. I mean, that’s a given because we see each other on coaching calls and in the Facebook group, but to be together is just so different and so special, and so I’m really excited about that part too and just having time to sit and talk and laugh and eat smores and run in the woods in the dark. I mean, who wouldn’t want to do that?

Jill: Right. So I couldn’t agree more though because I think we’ve done retreats before and so forth, but this is kind of like the biggest. There will be 16 of us there all doing this race together. I think this is probably the biggest group that we’ve had doing a race, at least that you and I have taken together, so I am just – I am beyond excited because I’m going to be bringing extra charger for my phone and everything because I want to make sure that we capture a ton of pictures and a ton of video and I think there’s going to be a lot of silliness and a lot of – because we’re going to be running in the middle of the night too and everybody’s going to have a different schedule and it’s going to be fun.

Jen: I’m very, very excited.

Jill: Okay, alright, so I think the terror and the excitement are there in equal measures right now but I also kind of feel like the terror is part of the excitement. Like I’m excited – it’s like when you go to a scary movie and you’re excited about it ahead of time because you’re like, oh my god, I’m going to be so scared. And then you go to the movie, knowing you’re going to be scared, so I think it’s maybe kind of like that. I don’t know.

Jen: Maybe. I don’t go to scary movies but maybe like going to a haunted house on Halloween.

Jill: There we go. Exactly.

Jen: You know that you’re going to survive and then you’re going to be scared and you’re going to be exhilarated and all those things. I think the unknown is probably the scariest part. We know we can do the distance. We know that we’ve been training, we know we can do it, but it’s really more the unknown of what it’s going to be like.

Jill: And I think for me, literally the only unknown is running in the woods in the dark.

Jen: Yeah, that and me running three times in a 36-hour period is…

Jill: Yeah, that’s a great point. That too.

Jen: And just like, what are my legs going to feel like and I can run in the dark in the early morning, but at 11 o clock at night I’m tired. What am I going to feel like? You know?

Jill: Right, are you really going to want to wake up at 2am and go out and run seven miles? Probably not, but you’re going to do it anyway. I don’t think we’re going to sleep much.

Jen: I don’t think so either.

Jill: It’s a good thing we got a hotel room for that Saturday night because you know we’re just going to pass out.

Jen: 100%. And I am not good with no sleep. I turn into a weeping bawling baby. I’m going to be in a fetal position sucking my thumb in the corner. I do not do well on no sleep.

Jill: Awesome. Great. And we’re sharing a tent. We’re going to have fun. It’s going to be amazing. And so I think we should do a recap episode after we do the Ragnar. I think we should do it on the podcast.

Jen: 100%.

Jill: We’ll totally do that. Okay, so let’s talk 5K training because I put a post in the Facebook group today and said hey you guys, what are your questions and we got lots of great questions, so I’m going to read them out. I’ve got them in front of me and Jen and I are going to kind of take turns giving input on the answers. So should we go? You ready?

Jen: I’m down, I’m ready.

Jill: Do it, okay. So we start out with a question from Melissa who says, “What are the best intervals for a 5K? I’m currently doing 30 second run, 60 second walk, doing 15 intervals and it works out to about three and a half kilometers.” So that’s an awesome question, Melissa, and if 30 second run, 60 second walk feels like a comfortable interval to you, I would just extend it so that instead of doing three and a half kilometers, you’re doing five kilometers.

So you can just do more of that. You don’t necessarily need to find the perfect interval that gets you to a 5K in – because I think a 30 second run, 60 second walk for 15 intervals, what’s that about? 22 minutes? It’s a minute and a half times 15…

Jen: Are you asking me to do math off the cuff? You know what my zone of genius is and it is not math.

Jill: I’m pretty sure it’s 22.5 minutes because my zone of genius is definitely doing math in my head. It’s a useless skill. So Melissa, if that interval ratio feels good to you, then I would stick with that and I would just extend it until you get to the 5K portion, or until you make 5K, rather than just stopping at three and a half kilometers. But just overall, I don’t think there is a best interval for a 5K. I think the best interval is the one that gives you personally, the best combination of effort and efficiency so that you go at the pace that you want and that you’re able to go the length of time and the distance that you want. What would you add to that, Jen?

Jen: I totally agree, and if you want to play around with it, play around with it and switch it up and see if there’s something if you want to do a little bit more running or a little bit more walking and play around with it and see how you feel, but if you feel like if you add 15 more seconds of running and it’s just too much, then just go back to what you’re doing. There’s no magic interval. It’s really what you find to be your sweet spot in that moment.

Jill: Yeah. And I think we get asked this question a lot like, what is the best interval, and it’s so funny because sometimes in the Run Your Best Life group, somebody will say what intervals are you all doing, I want to know what the best one is. I’m like, that’s like saying what’s the best running shoe. Every single person is different and every single person is going to have a best interval ratio and a best running shoe, so play around with it like Jen said.

Jen: And I think people also kind of get in their heads like, when do I stop doing intervals and go straight running and I always say why do you need to stop doing intervals? You don’t ever have to stop doing intervals.

Jill: Right, I mean, the run-walk method is an actual strategy that people use for running. It is a way of being a runner, just like being a sprinter is a way of being a runner, or relay racer is a way of being a runner. It’s just another way of doing it. Okay, alright, so on the topic of intervals, Rosa asks, “Is it better to use intervals or try to keep a steady consistent pace throughout the whole run?” What would you say to that?

Jen: Again, I would say it depends on what you are able to do and what feels good for you. And again, it goes back to that well, I should be running the whole time to be a runner, it’s like no, what you just said, interval running is a type of running, and so if you feel like intervals are better for you and quite frankly, for a lot of people intervals actually end up making you faster. I think people think that if I run straight the whole time I’m going to be faster, but probably nine times out of 10 when we are coaching people in Run Your Best Life and we tell them to add a little bit longer walk or extend your walk or add in a walk interval, they end up getting faster because they’re able to sustain it longer and their body is working better.

Jill: Yeah. It’s kind of magic like that. And it blows everybody’s mind. I say you know what, if you’re running an entire 5K without taking a walk break and it takes you 45 minutes to do that, if you throw in a few targeted walk breaks, you will probably reduce your 5K time down to 40 minutes, and they’re like, no, never. And I’m like, well, just try, let’s just see, let’s give it a chance. And almost every single time, they come back and they say okay, that worked. Now what? Then we can actually work further.

So again Rosa, there is no one perfect way to do it. If keeping a steady consistent pace and running without taking any walk breaks is your goal, that’s fine and you can totally work towards that, but it’s not necessarily better or worse, and very often using an interval approach can actually get you finishing the race faster. So if finishing the race faster is your goal, then   very often the interval approach is probably a better way to go.

Jen: Yeah, and the opposite too. We’ve had runners who have been running straight and then they want to try the intervals and they feel like they’re supposed to be doing intervals and I’m like, no, if running straight through is easier or better for you, you feel better doing it, then do it that way. It’s up to you.

Jill: Yeah, exactly. You get to choose. That is the best part of all of this is there is no definition in the dictionary that says this is exactly how you have to do it. It’s fabulous. Okay, so Mandy asks, “Should I add in a longer run somewhere during the six-week interval training program?” Okay, so I think Mandy is doing our free six-week starter plan, which if you want to try it, you can find it on the website. You just go to notyouraveragerunner.com/sixweekstarter.

So she says, “Should I add in a longer run somewhere during the six-week interval training program? I have a 5K in just over a month. I’ve walked them before but I’ve never done one doing intervals.” It kind of depends, Mandy. So if you’re able to go three miles as one of those six-week interval training runs then you’re good to go, but if they take you maybe two miles, which most people, those workouts probably put them in the one and a half mile to two mile range, then yes, you will want to do some longer runs.

So you can just take the intervals that you’ve gotten from the six-week free training program and just do them all the way up to three miles as part of your training. You have anything to add to that, Jen?

Jen: No, that’s pretty straightforward.

Jill: Alright, Trish says, “When do you start seeing your stamina increase while doing intervals?” I’m going to toss that one over to you. Surprise.

Jen: I think it’s just like anything. You’re building endurance, and so I think with certain things like running being one of them, people think they haven’t run in a really long time and they’re starting to run and they’re like, it should be easier by now and it’s day three, or it’s week three and they’re like, it should be easier by now. And it takes a while to build your endurance up and sometimes it never feels “easy.”

I mean, it is a workout and so I think that your stamina – you can go longer and farther than you could in the past by building that muscle, but it’s going to take a little bit of time to get there and it really depends on how much you’re training, are you doing your strength, are you resting, are you stretching, are you eating well, are you over-training. Because over-training can actually zap your endurance.

So there’s a lot of factors that go into that but you should see a steady increase over the weeks of your endurance level, and there’s no formula unfortunately for it, which I feel like is our answer for a lot of these questions, but it really is true. And I think you once told me when I first started working with you, I was frustrated about my progress and you said to me, do you play guitar? And I said no, and you said, if I asked you to take this guitar and go to Carnegie Hall and play a concert for a full hall tomorrow, is that reasonable?

And I was like, no, of course not. You’re like, this is the exact same thing. You have to learn how to play the guitar before you can play a concert. And so I was like, oh god, that makes so much sense. Same thing for running. You have to practice. You have to build strength. You have to build endurance. And it’s one of those things that you always have to work at because you could lose it.

And so you might get sick or you get injured and you have to take some time off, and you lose a little bit of it. You just build it back up. So when people used to run 10 years ago, when they were 10 years younger and were training all the time, come back to running, they’re like, I want to be where I was 10 years ago. Well, it’s impossible because you can’t go back in time. So you have to build a new practice.

Jill: That’s so beautifully said, and the other thing I would add to that is often, so when you start running and you’re working at a certain effort level, and that has you going at a certain pace, and a month later, it still feels hard but you might actually be going a little bit faster. So very often, you can do more – your stamina increases because you’re still putting out the same effort level but you’re able to do more work with that effort level.

Here’s a story that a good friend of mine said to me years ago. She said, when I first started working with a personal trainer, it was really hard. I was really struggling and every workout was awful and we’d been working together for a couple of months and it wasn’t getting any easier. And I said to him, dude, when does this get easier? And he’s like, it never gets easier. You always keep working at this level. You’re just able to do more with that effort.

And I think that’s something that sometimes we miss is hey, I’m always working at that same level. It’s not that running is ever supposed to feel effortless and easy. It’s just that you get used to that level of output of effort and you can go faster and farther within it.

Jen: Yeah, and I think the perception of hard or easy is mental too. So you could say god, that was so hard, I had such a horrible run and I’m so slow and I feel like I have lead legs, and you could have all of those feelings and thoughts and then you look at your data and you’re like, wait, I ran faster than I did last time, or further than I did last time. And then it’s like okay, so this is a mental thing.

I had that when I was training with the marathon, if you remember. My 17-mile run was in my mind, awful. It was awful from step one to step five million. And I complained and complained and complained how terrible it was and how bad I was doing and then I looked at the data and I was faster than the time before. And then I went further than the time before. So you were like, all of that drama was all made up. It was not a fact that your run was worse. You made it all up.

Jill: Right? It’s amazing, brains. Brains are such jerks.

Jen: Total jerks.

Jill: So no, that’s a great point though is we expect – I think the takeaways from this are don’t expect it to happen overnight and don’t let your subjective perception of it color the facts. Actually, look at the data and then that’ll tell more of a story.

Okay, Renee says, she asks, “Is it better to train for a fast walk or a slow run?” And that’s such an interesting question. So the way I’m going to answer this question and Jen, you might have a different take on it, but what I think you might be asking is should I work on the pace of my run interval or should I work on the pace of my walk interval. But I think you also might be asking which is better for a 5K. Should I just work on running slower and running the whole thing or walking the whole thing as fast as possible. So I’m just going to – let’s just answer both of those questions.

So the first is when you’re doing your intervals, you should probably slow down your run a little bit because everybody wants to sprint on their running intervals and then they can barely walk on the walk intervals because they’re exhausted. So I think when you are doing run-walk intervals, that you should be aiming to increase the cadence, increase the number of steps, the pace that you take on the walk and slow down the run so that you’re able to maintain it.

But I’m just not 100% sure whether you’re asking that or whether you’re saying should I just maintain a slow running pace or a fast walking pace for the entire 5K. And again, the answer to that second question is it kind of depends on what your goals are. What would you add to that, Jen?

Jen: Yeah, I agree. I would say that it does depend, and I think some people feel like I could walk faster than I can run, but for me, it feels better to run slow than to walk fast. I’m better at running slowly than walking quickly, and so I don’t think there’s one that’s better than the other. It’s just what feels better for you, what feels more natural and at what point can you maintain the distance.

Jill: Yeah, because there are people out there who can walk a 12-minute mile. But it’s a different gate, it’s a different way of moving your body than just regular walking, and a different way of moving your body than running, for sure. And so I agree. I think to me, running a 12-minute mile feels so much easier than walking a 12-minute mile. I think it’s just how my body is put together and walking that fast walk can really knock the stuffing out of you. It takes some effort. So a slow run might actually feel easier but I like the combination of doing both of them in a back and forth ratio.

Jen: I agree, and I think your point about slowing down the run is good too because I think people are compelled to like, oh, this is my run, I got to run all out for this run interval, and you don’t have to do that.

Jill: That’s not how anybody runs a race. Even people who don’t take walk breaks, they are not running all out the whole time. The people that are most successful at hitting their goal times are the ones that manage their energy from the beginning of the race to the end, and so they start out, they’re running slower than they are at the end. At the end, they save some energy so they can really haul ass across that finish line.

Alright, we have a nutrition question now about 5Ks. So Suzanne asks, “What prep three months before, one month before, one week, and the day before nutrition and liquid wise?”

Jen: Wow. That’s a good question.

Jill: Do you want to answer that one?

Jen: Yeah, I’d be happy to. I think three months out and one month out are kind of the same thing. I don’t really think there’s much difference in those at all, quite honestly. But three months out you’re probably planning to start a training program. You might not be doing a three-month training program for a 5K. It might be a little less than that, but it might be. It might be a 12-week program.

And so you’re going to want to start putting fuel in your body that’s going to help you run and help your body stay healthy and feel good. So maybe on a normal day-to-day basis, if you eat something like dairy or wheat, it might give you a little bit of a tummy ache or something, or maybe a little gas or something, that on a regular life day, that doesn’t really matter. But when you’re running and you have a tummy ache or you’re gassy, it’s going to make a big difference.

And so if those foods bother you, you’re probably going to want to start cutting them out, or at least cutting them out a day or two before you’re going to run so that your stomach is settled and you’re feeling good and light and all of that, and that’s just sort of basic good nutrition. You want to try to – I always say try to eat not out of a package as much as possible. I mean, that’s not always possible and you do what you have to do, but try to at least get fruits and vegetables in every meal, including breakfast, and try to go on the leaner side with the proteins, and make sure you’re getting a balanced meal so you’re not going all protein or too protein heavy, or too carb heavy. You don’t have to eat eight pounds of pasta to carb load. There are great ways to carb load that have nothing to do with pasta.

Jill: Yeah, and I kind of feel like that big heavy pasta meal the night before makes you feel awful the next day. Do not do that before a race.

Jen: No, I totally agree. And then leading up to it, again, kind of you will have three months of data, of sort of what feels good and so you’ll know what to eat the night before a race. You’re going to want to eat enough so that you are waking up not full. You don’t ever want to wake up full, but you don’t want to wake up starving either. So you want to eat maybe a little more carb than you normally do but again, good balanced healthy carbs.

So like, if you’re not used to eating a big pasta meal, don’t eat a big pasta meal the night before your race. So you can also have potatoes or sweet potatoes, or rice or tortillas or whatever works for you, with some healthy fat and some protein, and you want to really balance it out. Something that’s not too overly fibrous so that your stomach doesn’t get upset, or spicy. I mean, unless you’re really used to eating spicy food and it doesn’t bother you because it could have some…

Jill: I could probably eat buffalo wings before a race and still…

Jen: I know, but some people, it can affect them – their gastrointestinal system. So you know, don’t…

Jill: What do you think about dairy?

Jen: I mean, I think it depends on how you tolerate it. I tolerate dairy really well so I’m a big proponent of yogurt and cheese and that kind of stuff.

Jill: Well, I mean before a race though.

Jen: I wouldn’t eat it the day of the race, like the morning of. I probably would not eat that in the morning, but the night before, it doesn’t bother me so it just depends on if you have dairy issues or not. But dairy itself can make you phlegm-y and mucus-y, so I wouldn’t eat it like, the day of the race. But you could potentially eat it the night before for sure.

Jill: When I used to eat breakfast, which I haven’t eaten breakfast in years because I realized that it just didn’t feel great to me, but I did use to have before every training run, I would have half a slice of – they call it marathon bread from Wegmans and it’s basically like a really thick – almost a chewy whole-wheat bread with a lot of seeds and then some cranberries and stuff in it, and I would toast that and I would put some almond butter on it. And it was like, rocket fuel. Super easy to digest, but now I feel even better just not eating anything before I run. Although as I train for this marathon, that might change. I may actually have to adjust my nutrition strategy.

Jen: And it doesn’t have to be a lot. I mean, that’s the thing. For a 5K, for the actual training runs and the race, you’re probably not going to need any fuel on those training runs or the race itself because you’re probably not going to be going long enough to need it. You might be, but probably not. Hydration wise, you should be staying hydrated all the time, whether you’re training or not.

So at least 64 ounces of water a day, like eight glasses of water a day. And then you know, you can replenish – especially if you have a really hot run or a really humid run, you want to replenish some electrolytes, something with some electrolyte in it.

Jill: Yeah, like Nuun. And if you go to notyouraveragerunner.com/resources, I think we have a link to that. Nuun or Scratch is another one.

Jen: Gatorade.

Jill: Gatorade in a pinch for sure.

Jen: I used to drink Coca-Cola on my marathon training runs because the caffeine and the sugar just was like, yes.

Jill: I love it. The other thing I like to do is on my last long run, so a couple weeks, two, three weeks out, I guess in a 5K your last – in a 5K, it might be the weekend before or two weekends before, is do a dress rehearsal of the meal that you think you’re going to eat the night before and if you’re going to eat the morning of, that food as well. Do that dress rehearsal and just make sure that your stomach will tolerate it and that it feels good to you.

Jen: And nothing new the night before or day of the race. Nothing new. No new clothes, no new food.

Jill: Don’t say oh my god, this is the night I’m going to try sushi for the first time and the next day is your 5K. No. Do not do that.

Jen: Don’t do it. Although sushi, if you’re used to it is actually really good because it’s a really good balance of carbs and protein.

Jill: Yeah, and the soy sauce has a lot of sodium in it and I kind of like having something salty in my system the night before. Okay, so Karen asks, “How many days should I rest? i.e. not run prior to my 5K?” And with a 5K, the day before I would not run and then two days before, I would have an easy run. So Jen, do you have anything to add to that?

Jen: Not really. I would just say pretty much what you said. I never do strength training the day before a run, a long run especially, so I would say that would be the most important thing for me at least.

Jill: Love it. Love it. We always agree on everything. We got to find some questions where we disagree. I don’t know if we’ll find any, but someday.

Jen: #hoe-mance.

Jill: Okay, alright, so I’ve got two more questions left to cover. So Lisa asks – this is such a common thing that happens. So she says, “All of the 5K training program around me,” and I’m assuming she means in-person, “are for people who can do a 12-minute mile or faster. I tried one but I kept getting left behind and I didn’t even finish the class. Do you have any recommendations for training for a 5K that would work for a slower runner?” Okay, first of all Lisa, I feel you. I’ve been you.

Jen: Same, girl. Same, girl. Same.

Jill: And to be honest, we should offer this with Not Your Average Runner. We should totally offer some in-person training classes, but to be honest, there really aren’t going to be a lot out there because unfortunately, a lot of these training programs are run by running stores and to them, a 12-minute mile is a slow beginner pace, and that’s just not the case for everyone. So I mean, my suggestion would be to find an online program that works for you and of course, we happen to have one that’s amazing.

So if you do ours, of course, we will totally have you covered and the folks in our training programs, some of them are doing a 12-minute mile, some of them are doing a 20-minute mile. So it’s sort of like, sort of all paces are covered. But regardless, whether you work with us or whether you work with another program, I think an online program is probably going to be the best option. I don’t know, what do you think, Jen?

Jen: I think so. I mean, I think that you can maybe find running buddies in your area who run a similar pace as you, but a big group that’s either done through a running store or say, a gym or a park district, if they run sort of by “traditional” coaches, they are going to think that a 12-minute mile – they’re slow pace. And for me, my pace is anywhere from a 14-minute mile to an 18-minute mile, depending on where I’m running.

And so I remember I told this story when I did the podcast where I talked about my marathon, and I had trained for a half marathon a long, long time ago and I joined a running group like that. And I said to the coach, I said do you have slower runners? He’s like oh yeah, we have all paces. And I didn’t ask what the pace was because I’m assuming like, if I say slow runner, I mean like a 13, 14-minute mile, which is what I was doing at the time. Slower runner.

He’s like, oh yeah, we have all these people. And I get there and two thirds of the people in the group were training to qualify for the Boston Marathon. I was like, seriously? So they were – anyone who wasn’t training for the Boston or trying to qualify for Boston was the “slower runners.” So we would go out on these runs and they would be on their way back and I would not even be halfway out. I mean, it was a total, total – it just messed with me so badly.

And so yeah, our group especially is every pace, no judgments. I mean, it is – and those people weren’t judging me either. They were fantastic and they were so nice, but we learn how not to judge ourselves in our group and that’s the difference.

Jill: And I think yeah, that’s a great point. If you do go with one of the in-person running groups and you just decide that you’re going to be okay with always being at the back of the pack, which is totally fine, and if you want to be okay with that – because that’s what I had to learn to do and that’s what you had to learn to do Jen is like, I’m just okay with that. If you want to do that, that’s totally fine but you will – I think a lot of times we think the other runners are judging me because I’m last. And honestly, that’s really not the case. Runners are pretty nice people. They’re full of endorphins. There’s no anger.

So I mean, occasionally you find assholes, but there’s assholes everywhere. But for the most part, if you’re joining a training group and you’re always at the back of the pack, always the last one, don’t worry about what other people think about it. Get your money’s worth, get what you paid for. There’s nothing wrong with doing that. But personally I think finding an online group where there’s just tons of people like you, you can kind of train with step by step but virtually, and maybe you find some people that are local to you that are doing the same training program and you can train together, I think that’s – I would recommend that as your best bet.

Jen: Yeah.

Jill: Alright, and then the last question we have is from Felicia, which I just love the name Felicia. It’s so pretty.

Jen: I just always want to say bye Felicia.

Jill: We’re going to say hi Felicia. Felicia says, “I really want to train for a turkey trot.” I’ve never done a turkey trot. I’ve been a runner for 20 years.

Jen: Oh my god, I do one every year.

Jill: I think I’m going to do one this year. Actually, well, I’m doing the Philadelphia marathon the Sunday before Thanksgiving so does that count as the turkey trot?

Jen: 100%.

Jill: Okay, thank you. Alright, then I’ve done a turkey trot several years because I’ve done the half marathon. Anyway, so Felicia – we’re so getting off track. Felicia says, “I really want to train for a turkey trot with my family this November but they are all really fast runners and I don’t want to come in last. What should I do?” This is a good question.

Jen: I love this question. This is I think like, anybody who’s new to running or been running for a while, this is a huge fear. I don’t want to be last, I don’t want to be left behind, I don’t want people waiting for me, and it’s all in your brain. There is – it literally is your brain telling you there’s something wrong with being last because guess what, there’s nothing wrong with being last.

Jill: It’s a place. Last is a place. Just like third place and 100^th place. It’s true.

Jen: So what? I mean, you still did the same distance as everybody else. You just took a little longer to do it. So? Guess what, you still get to eat turkey if you eat meat. Stuffing. You still get to eat stuffing.

Jill: I always struggle to understand and I’ve kind of faced this myself because there’s been more than one occasion where I’ve been very close to last in a race and I can feel this panic bubbling up inside me going oh my god, I’m going to be last. And then my brain is like, and so what? Because somebody has to be last.

When I say that to myself, I’m like, Jesus, Jill, somebody has to be last. What? Are you too good for that? Why can’t you be last? Why can’t you be that person? Somebody has to be first and somebody has to be last, and then somebody has to be every place along the middle. And the only reason that being last is a bad thing is when you make it mean something about yourself, when you make it mean that you’re a failure or that you’re not cut out to be a runner, or that you aren’t a real runner. Whatever you make it mean about yourself is just a shitty story that you’re telling.

Jen: 100%. It is literally your brain. It means nothing except what you make it mean, and then it doesn’t even really mean that. I mean, it really is a story you’re telling yourself and you can completely change that story. I mean, I was on the podcast two podcasts ago talking about being at the back of the pack and being last in this race and how I’ve been able to – I don’t even want to say overcome it because it’s not an affliction, but to be able to process that and be cool with being right where I’m at and meeting myself right where I’m at every time I run.

Jill: Yeah. Would you rather not run the race than run the race and come in last? And I kind of feel like that’s like saying I’d rather just stop running because I’m not good at it or I don’t know. There’s so many things that I suck at in life and I just continue to do them because I like that.

Jen: But I think that happens to a lot of people. I think fear keeps people from doing things. I mean, I think we talked about this in the beginning of the podcast about the Ragnar. And right now we’re saying we can’t imagine not doing it now that we said we’re going to, even though we’re scared shitless about doing it. But three years ago, I don’t know if I would have had that same sentiment. I would have been like, I don’t even know if I would have let myself dream big enough to do it.

And so if you want to do a turkey trot and you want to spend that time with your family and you – I’m telling you, I love a Thanksgiving Day race. It’s one of my most just favorite times. I just love it. And I don’t know why, but I use it – the one that’s in my town that I do every year, it’s a four-miler and I don’t know, we run through the neighborhoods and people are out and their turkeys are in the oven and it’s fall and it’s just – it’s kind of a time to be grateful and reflect. I just love it. And I always do it with the same people every year, and it’s such a nice tradition, and why would you let fear of being last keep you from that? And fear keeps us from so much, and all fear is is a thought.

Jill: Yeah. And you guys, it’s just a fucking race. It’s like, nobody dies if you’re coming in last.

Jen: They’re not going to take away your human badge because you come in last.

Jill: Exactly. We put so much pressure on ourselves like I can’t be last. I can’t fail. I can’t let people see that I’m human. Spoiler alert, they know. It’s like, when we wear really big baggy clothes because like, I don’t want people to know I’m fat. People know. It’s not a secret.

Jen: Somebody says something snarky or shitty to you about being last, you can always ask the question, why does it matter if I’m last? See what their answer is. And if they say well god, I would be humiliated, you can say I feel really sorry for you for not doing things because you’re afraid of being humiliated.

Jill: Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh, I love that so much. And I guarantee, the people who say like, oh, I’d be really embarrassed if I were last are not runners. Again, it keeps coming back around to that that like, the runners are not the ones – when somebody says oh gosh, I’d be really embarrassed if I was last, I guarantee they’re not a runner. So why does their opinion even matter?

Jen: And even if they were, their opinions don’t matter and guess what, their opinions are none of your business.

Jill: Yes, exactly. So that’s all the questions that we had pre-submitted. And I just want to – before we close the podcast, I want to take a moment to really talk about this 5K training program that we’ve put together that – gosh, it’s starting in a week. A week and a half. If you’re listening to this the day it comes out, you’re listening on the 29^th and so it is about a week and a half.

So the training starts on September 9^th and if you want to do a 5K, especially if you don’t have a local training group, this is the place to be. We have – first of all, obviously we have your training plan and it’s meant for somebody who’s a beginner. it’s not – and actually, we can accommodate runners of all levels, but we’re really good at helping people get started running and do their first 5K and really, really rock it out. And what would you say are some of the strengths of this program?

Jen: I think the best thing is it’s not just a great training program. It’s a great training program that’s like, here’s the runs and here’s your stretching and all that stuff but it really is training you to not only run the race well but to feel great about it. And so the mental work that we do is equally or more important than the physical work that we do, and addressing those fears.

Everybody has the same fears. Everybody’s afraid they’re going to come in last. Everybody’s afraid somebody is going to have an opinion about them running a race. Everybody is afraid that the training is going to be hard. Everybody’s afraid they’re not going to finish. Even the seasoned runners who have been running a long time still have those fears sometimes. But we teach you how to work through those because the fears are always going to come, but we teach you how to deal with it and to move on and to have fun and enjoy it and be proud of yourself and put that medal out there and be like, hell yeah I just did this 5K.

It doesn’t matter how long it took me. It doesn’t matter if I was last. And that’s the beauty of it, and in this community of people, of women who are all in the same boat as you. So it’s super inclusive and non-judgmental and uplifting and all those things that we need, that we don’t get everywhere in our lives. It really is like a little unicorn of a program, quite honestly.

Jill: It kind of is. It kind of is. And there’s a lot of like, oh gosh, I feel like I’m home, I feel like I’ve found my people. So many people join the class and they’re a little hesitant and they’ll put their first post in the group and they’ll be like, I’m so nervous. Then there will be 20 people that jump in and say oh, I’m so excited you’re here and hey, we’re practically neighbors, and oh my gosh, I started running the same time you did and don’t worry, we’re here for you.

I think it’s the most supportive group of women I have ever met. There is no – because sometimes you’re in Facebook groups and there’s a little bit of snark and there’s a little bit of like, I don’t know. People don’t always behave nicely. I have never in that group had to say behave yourselves. Not once in two years that we’ve had Run Your Best Life going.

Jen: We’ve really created a culture in this group that is unique to anything I’ve ever been in and quite honestly, not in one million years did I ever think I would be part of an online community, A, period. But in a community now, I’m traveling to Washington DC next week and I’m hanging out with two people who I met through this group. I would have never in a million years even dreamt that that would be a possibility in my life and now we’re like, going out one night that I’m in Washington DC because they’ve become friends of mine. I mean, it really is – I have friends all over the country now. It’s so incredibly cool. And you don’t have to become friends with people but it’s just a great place to have a supportive community who are just going to lift you up and celebrate you for who you are and meet you right where you’re at.

Jill: Yeah, it’s pretty amazing. And you get to run a 5K too. So yeah, so if you – the class is enrolling now. Registration is open. If you want to get in on it, just go to notyouraveragerunner.com and it’s right there at the top of the page. There’s a button to click and it’ll tell you all the information. It’s only $78. The class itself is two months long. It’s eight weeks. So you get all of the training, you’ve got me and Jen coaching you in there, you get live coaching calls three times a week, I think.

Jen: I spend more than that on coffee in two months.

Jill: I think I do too. My Starbucks bill is very high. And you get full access to the Run Your Best Life community while you’re a member. So there’s just so much about this that I kind of feel like there’s just – it’s kind of a no-brainer to sign up because you get to run your first 5K, or maybe your 10^th 5K and you just want a structured training program around it. You want to get access and advice from coaches, some of the stuff that we’ve been talking about today. We go deep into the mental side of it, we go deep into the physical side of it, and it’s just fun. And we swear a lot. So if you don’t like swearing, it might not be the place for you.

Jen: And we’re funny. We’re fun to hang out with.

Jill: We are funny. I think we are.

Jen: I think we are. And that’s all that matters, right?

Jill: Exactly.

Jen: I would just say if you’re listening to this and it’s been on your mind to do a 5K, if you’ve been looking for a sign, this is it. Don’t let fear hold you back from doing something totally fucking awesome.

Jill: Life is short. Do the hard crazy shit. So good. Alright, well that’s it. So you can find the link to join the class at notyouraveragerunner.com. Super easy. Or you can go to the show notes for this episode and click on the link there. And I hope that we see you there. We’ll be looking for you. We’re saving a seat for you.

Jen: Join us.

Jill: Join us. Plus, here’s the thing; if you join the class, then you get to hear – we will be live streaming a lot of the shenanigans from the Ragnar directly into the Facebook group where this class is held so you will get to see it firsthand. And if we come out of the woods alive, you’ll get all the firsthand dirt on that. But just as a little added bonus. There you go. Okay, well this has been fun as usual and yeah, that’s for joining me.

Jen: Thanks for having me.

Jill: Alright, talk to y’all later.

Thanks for listening to this episode of The Not Your Average Runner Podcast. If you liked what you heard and want more, head over to www.notyouraveragerunner.com to download your free one-week jumpstart plan and get started running today.