Ep #203: Giving Yourself a Post-Pandemic Makeover with Style Coach Judith Gaton

Welcome to the Not Your Average Runner podcast. If you’re a woman who has never felt athletic but you still dream about becoming a runner, you are in the right place. I’m Jill Angie, a certified running and life coach, and I teach women how to start running, feel confident, and change their lives. And now, I want to help you.

Jill: Hey Rebels, I am so excited because I have the one and only Judith Gaton on the podcast today. She has been my style coach, she is pretty soon to be the style coach to the stars, I think. Because everywhere I go, I see her coaching people and styling people. And she has just the most amazing philosophy on style and body image. And she’s also a life coach like me, and I just can’t say enough good things about her.

So I’m just going to introduce her right now. Hello, Judith, welcome to the podcast.

Judith: Thank you for having me. They can’t see me, but I’m like cheesy smiling at you. I’m so excited to be here.

Jill: I know I’m so excited to have you here. And I have to give a warning to everybody listening that we haven’t seen each other in, it’s probably been at least a month, I think. And so we may just kind of like peter off into like little asides and giggle. And just FYI, it may be one of those episodes. But there’s also going to be a lot of truth bombs.

So, before we dive in what I’d really love, Judith, is for you to kind of tell folks who you are, what you’re about, maybe a little bit about your story, and what you do. The magic that you work in the world.

Judith: Okay, yes, all of that. Let’s go, two minutes.

Jill:  Let’s just, boom, there you go.

Judith: So I’m a style coach for curvy women and I teach women to dress and love the body they are in right now. And I took a very circuitous route back to style.

I originally was a fashion design major, then decided to be a double major. And then I ended up minoring fashion design and majoring in law. And then I became a lawyer. And I went through law school and I gained 60 pounds. And then I had a really important interview and I realized, “Holy shit, my pants don’t fit.”

My good pants, because I know everyone has one, like the black pair of good pants. My good pants did not fit. I ran to Target to try to find good pants, which is so fascinating and tells you how broke I was. And then that didn’t work so I ran to Lane Bryant, found some good pants, did my interview and then realized, “Holy fuck, nothing fits. Everything is stained and holy. What the fuck am I going to do? Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.”

And then I decided I have to change, like something has to change. But I was so tired of dieting, and I was so tired of weight watching, and using HCG. I used that whole crazy diet thing where you were like injecting yourself with hormones.

Jill: Oh my God.

Judith: Terrible idea, it made me really euphoric. I have to say, people have had like different experiences with HCG. I was so happy all the time that it freaked me out, I was like, “It’s not good to be this happy, something is wrong with this stuff.”

Jill: Especially when you’re in law school. I feel like nobody’s happy in law school.

Judith: No, I was like, “I feel so euphoric.” Well, yeah, because I was like hopped up on pregnancy hormones, it was terrible. And then, yeah, I even phentermine which is like legalized crack. Do you not do that shit people, it’s really bad for you.

So I tried all the things but I got to a point where I’m like, “I just don’t want to do this anymore. I don’t want to wait till I’m X size so that I can feel pretty and buy clothes that fit.” Like this madness has to stop. Also, I need my ass covered when I go to interviews. Like just as a base like, keep that booty covered.

So that’s kind of how I sort of made my way back. And then I found coaching. And I decided to help curvy, amazing women love their body, dress their body now without diets, without extra Spanx, without all that shit. It was time to bring what I had learned to the peoples because I knew so many amazing women who were stuck in that same place on their bed in their pants that don’t fit. And it was a terrible feeling.

Jill: I was one of those women. And you changed my life, you did.

Okay, so how do you help women, like what happens when you work with somebody? Like let’s just get that out of the way and then we’re going to talk all things like style and body image. But I want people to know, like you’ve got some major street cred, you’re extremely legit when it comes to this. What happens when you work with somebody?

Judith: Yeah, I have a whole makeover framework. And I think it’s the framework can be used to transform any area of your life, we just start with clothes, because I think it’s a conduit to women’s hearts and minds. Like we get in your clothes we get in your panty drawer, your bra door, we’re going to pull up some things.

So this makeover framework is sort of universal, but I use it specifically with clothes. So the idea is to find out what you don’t want, which is the edit phase. What you do you want, the creation phase. And then how to get what you want, which is the designing, planning phase. And then curation is the last phase, which is like, how do we repeat the process?

So finally allowing you to say, “Fuck this, I don’t want to do this anymore.” And then giving you permission to like what you like. How to get what you like, and then how to keep on getting it. That’s the framework.

Jill: I love that.

Judith: Which I think is like how makeovers happen. Like real lasting makeovers, that’s how they really happen.

Jill: Yeah. And so, can we talk a little bit about- All right, because you start with, this is where you started with me, like in the underwear drawer. Which I was kind of like, “No, why don’t we work on like the clothes that I wear outside?” And you’re like, “No, no.”

And it’s kind of like building a base, right? It’s almost like with my runners, I’m like, “You can’t train for a marathon until you’ve trained for your first 5k. You can’t train for your first 5k until you’ve done your first mile.” And nobody wants to do the boring stuff first, they want to get to the sexy stuff. Which, ironically, underwear is I guess the sexy stuff. What do you know? Oh my gosh, I feel like you could use that in your marketing.

Judith: I’m going to take notes, I love that.

Jill: That’s so fun. But why do you work with underwear first? Why? Because it seemed counterintuitive to me, but of course it blew my mind. And I mean, people have heard me complain about my bras and you fixed all my bras. So talk about this concept of where you start with people.

Judith: Yeah, okay, and this is so good. The running analogy is perfect, right? We can’t run a marathon until we’ve trained for and then had our first 5k. So we create a foundation. We create skill sets and we gain meta skills.

Same thing with starting with your underwear drawer, it gives you a really great quick win. But it also tells us a lot about what you’ve been thinking about yourself and what you’ve been doing as a result. So we can kind of see, “Okay, so if you’re doing that with something as small as your undies, where else are you doing that shit?”

So if you’re having thoughts like, “I don’t buy clothes at this weight or this size.” And you refuse to buy underwear that fits you, I can put the cutest outfit on you in the world, it’s not going to matter because you’re going to have a wedgie. So what’s the point?

You can’t see Jill’s hand, she’s like preach, she has a little preach hand up.

But there’s no point, there’s no point. So what we want to do is figure out what you’ve been thinking that’s causing you to do all the things that you’ve been doing. But let’s start with your undie drawer.

If I can get you buying there and I can get you to see like, “If I can change this, it’s possible that I can change anything. If I recognize what I’m doing here, then I can also see where I’m doing it elsewhere.” And then we can start to like, snowball that change and that development and that rapport with yourself with something as inexpensive as your undies and your bra.

Jill: So I think for me, maybe not so much for me, but maybe for other people because I’ve definitely done a lot of work to be able to look at myself in the mirror and be like, “Yep, that’s my stomach. That’s my butt. Those are my boobs.” Like it’s pretty neutral.

Does it bring up a lot of thoughts about, “Hey, I want my underwear to be something that nobody sees, because I don’t want anybody to see my body. I don’t want to think about my body and if I look at my body in my underwear, I have to think about it.” Does it bring up a lot of that?

Judith: Yeah.

Jill: Am I making sense?

Judith: Of course, it definitely brings up a lot of that. And I think it’s good to sort of back up. Like first week actually in my program, we call awareness week where you take a picture of your outfit every day. And I think you can remember this.

Jill: Yeah.

Judith: But you take a picture of yourself every day and you send it to me. And we chat about it because it’s such a good opportunity to actually look at yourself. Because I think so many women actually ignore themselves, they don’t actually look in the mirror. It’s like a passing glance in the morning, maybe.

So awareness week is a great time to- And you can do this experiment yourself. It’s good to have a coach because it’s going to bring up some stuff. But the exercise itself you can do at home is take a picture of yourself, take a look at it. And really ask yourself like, “Do I like how I’ve been showing up? How do I feel when I look at this picture? What am I thinking about myself when I look at this picture of myself?”

Like really taking yourself in and getting to know yourself again so that when we start to ease you into underwear from that place we already have you getting a little familiar with your body again. Reintroducing yourself to yourself. Because, yeah, I think I hear a lot of women say, “Well, no one’s going to see them.” But you see them, and you matter.

Jill: Yeah.

Judith: And we have to, I think rebuild that part of our brains, where other people are not the most important thing on our minds, or the most prevalent thing on our minds. We have to sort of remind ourselves like, “Hey, I exist. Hi, we need some new undies down here. Help.”

Jill: Right, and this is something that you’ve said over and over again and I’ve really internalized it that we’re not here on this earth to look good for other people. Right? We’re here to please ourselves, right? I mean, the clothes that we wear and everything, it’s not for other people, it’s for us.

And so it really doesn’t matter if nobody else ever sees your underwear. Like who freaking cares? It’s your underwear and you should enjoy what it feels like on your body. It should feel comfortable. I feel underwear can give you confidence.

I know all the cute little sets that we picked out when we were working together, some days I wear my sports underwear because I’m going for a run or whatever. But last night Andy and I went out to dinner at a friend’s house. And I mean, I wasn’t wearing anything super fancy, I was just wearing like just a little t shirt dress. But I put on my cute underwear and I was like, “I got my cute underwear on and nobody else knows it but me.” It made me feel so confident.

Judith: Yeah, like a little secret between you and yourself.

Jill: Yeah.

Judith: I think that’s one of the most sexy things and most delicious things you could do for yourself is have this little secret between you and you that you have the most bad ass underwear on. The sexy, the most feminine, fill in the adjective that resonates with you. But when you know that like, “He he he, you don’t know what I got under here.” It’s so good.

Jill: And that’s like when you talk to somebody who’s got that kind of swagger, like you know that they’re wearing sexy underwear, or cute underwear, or underwear that makes them happy. I feel like that is the secret to swagger.

Judith: Or all my commando ladies, y’all got a whole other secret running around.

Jill: Oh my gosh. Right? Right, they’re just like, “I don’t need underwear to make me feel good. I wear none.”

Judith: I got none on. Yeah, I mean, it’s like that’s how you start to build that relationship with yourself again. Especially if you’ve gotten so far away from it. Having sort of inside jokes and secrets with yourself about your undies, like how fun is that?

Jill: Yeah, that is so fun. All right, so we talked a lot about underwear, let’s talk about clothes. So tell me how- Actually let’s back it up a little bit. Why is it important for us to wear clothes that we love or that make a statement about us? Why are clothes important to our self-image and our body image?

Judith: Well, oh my gosh, so many reasons, but I’ll kind of say the three main and then we can sort of dive in from there.

So I think clothes that don’t fit you are such a distraction from the actual work you have to do in the world. So picking out wedgies, messing with your bra all day, trying to fix the gap in your shirt if your buttons don’t button right, picking up your jeans over your fat rolls and having to do that like wiggle dance all day. That is such a horrible distraction when you have other things to do. I’m sure all of your Rebels have more important shit to do than fuck with their clothes all day.

Jill: Yeah.

Judith: So just having clothes that fit and you set it and you forget it is already going to help increase your confidence because you don’t have that distraction of these items that are ill fitting. So that’s just sort of like the base line of why we should at least wear clothing that fits us. We don’t have to like it, just have it fit us.

And then the second layer of that is I think it’s so amazing when you think of style as the outward reflection of your thoughts and feelings about yourself. So if we’re having thoughts and feelings that help us dress ourselves in a way that we call stylish, we’re going to have a very different way of showing up when our clothes fit. When we like what we see when we look in the mirror. When someone’s like, “Oh my god, I love what you’re wearing.” And we don’t have to look down because we have no idea what we’re wearing, we actually are like, “Thank you.” And we stroll on in our cuteness.

It’s a very different way of showing up in the world when you’re feeling stylish or confident or whatever emotion you aspire to have in terms of how you dress yourself.

And then I think, sort of also a very practical thing, sort of last point is humans use clothing to signal what they’re doing. Like it’s just such a weird phenomena of human behavior, it’s more modern because we used to not change 5 million times a day, we only have like one set of clothing, maybe. We never had changes of clothing. But in modern day and age, we use our clothes to tell us what we’re doing next.

So we have like uniforms in our factory days, like we are now working at our factory. And then we had our Sunday best, because that’s what we wore to church. We have our PJs, because that’s what we wear to bed, they’re not our running around clothes. We have our running clothes and our workout gear, as we signal to our brain it’s time to go do this activity.

So clothing plays a really important role sort of in the human ecosystem and how we signal to our brains what we’re working on and what we’re doing next. Which is kind of interesting and I’m sure there’s whole articles on this by scholars more learned than I.

Jill: But right? Because when the circumstance is I’m wearing running clothes, the thought is going to be “Oh, it’s time to go for a run.” Right? So literally, we are changing the circumstance to help us get our thoughts in the place that will drive the feelings and the actions that we want.

Judith: Right, that’s like having your running shoes where you can see them. Like making sure your favorite sports bra is clean so that’s not the excuse, right? It’s so interesting, we use clothing as an excuse for not doing things when we could also use them as a tool to help us get things accomplished.

Like in terms of getting ready routines, I think you and I sort of talked about this, it was like getting all the stuff in one place. Not having it here and not having it there, like gathering it all so your brain knows this is our getting ready space, this is where we do that thing. And the same with your running stuff. I have it all together, I’m going to go now do that thing that I set out to do.

Jill: Yeah. So the first point that you made was having clothing that fits, that works for you helps you with your confidence. And I think I’ve talked about this a lot with my runners, it’s like, “Get running gear that fits you. We don’t buy a men’s a size 4x t shirt when we’re a women’s size XL, because we think like, “Oh, I’m just going to wear this big floppy T-shirt, because it’s going to cover up my body so nobody sees my body.”

But of course, running in clothing that doesn’t fit you can lead to chafing. It can slow you down, it can literally slow you down. Because if you’re wearing a big baggy t shirt, it becomes like a sail when you start running. Or if you’re wearing shorts that don’t fit or tights that don’t fit or whatever you’re constantly pulling them up.

Nothing is worse than trying to run a half marathon and having your damn tights falling off your ass the whole time. I guarantee you will not PR if you’re constantly stopping to pull your tights up. So just from that perspective alone, I think, all of this applies to running.

And then your second point, wait, rephrase your second point again, because I want to make sure I get it right.

Judith: Yeah, no, no, this is good. The second point was style is an outward reflection of your thoughts and feelings about yourself.

Jill: Yes.

Judith: So getting that locked in is just a way of, again, reintroducing yourself to yourself, but showing up in a totally different way that you’re doing on purpose.

Jill: Yeah. Right, so if you’re running in that big baggy T-shirt, you’re not thinking like, “Oh, look at me, I’m a runner.” You’re thinking, “Don’t look at me.” Right? “Don’t look at me, I’m not a real runner because I’m just going to wear whatever.”

And I think the signaling, yes, it’s like so critical. And for me in the morning when I put on my grownup clothes or even when- I mean just for everyone listening, Judith and I went through a whole process of redoing all of my pajamas. So if I wanted to have a day where I was hanging around in my pajamas, they were gorgeous pajamas that I loved. They were like work quality pajamas.

Judith: You have some beautiful print fresh pajamas.

Jill: Yes, oh my god, I love those. I know I have seven sets of absolutely stunning pajamas. So literally, if I just wanted to wear pajamas every day of the week, I could do that. And I don’t anymore, which is super fun, because now I’ve got all these other like fun clothes to wear. But we’re getting off topic here.

But yeah, like the concept of signaling, I think is on so many levels. But for my runners in particular who think like, “Oh, I can’t wear spandex, because I don’t want anybody to see my butt.” Or, “I can’t wear a fitted tank top when I run.” Or, you know, “I don’t care how hot it is outside. I can’t wear a tank top because I don’t want anybody to see my arms.” Right? You’re signaling to yourself that you don’t deserve to feel like a real runner. Am I understanding that correctly?

Judith: No, I love that. And let’s talk about it sort of metaphorically, because I think you’ve hit on something. I’m all excited now. I think it’s really important. So, if we think of the context of superheroes, right? We go from Clark Kent to Superman with a change of garments. He takes off his suit, he takes off his glasses. Now he’s a superhero.

Wonder Woman does that wonderful twirl, right? Like the old school Linda Carter ones. Which were the best sorry, Gal Gadot, but they’re the best. She does that whole spin and her outfit changes and suddenly her hair is down, and now she is Wonder Woman.

She went from Diana Prince to Wonder Woman with a change of garments. Now, with a change of garments we’ve signaled her badassery. We’ve called upon her superpowers and she’s willing to show up very differently than when she’s Diana Prince.

Jill: Yeah.

Judith: Every woman has that same ability to, with a clothing change, signal some superpower. We just sort of forget we too have that magical ability and that we’re the magic bringers. And then we’re the superheroes, we’re the heroines.

Instead we always act like we’re the sidekick. I’m going to be the frumpy sidekick today when I go running. I’ll wear this baggy ass t shirt that is going to slow me down and be sweaty as fuck. And then my armpits are going to be chafed, my boobies are going to be chafed. And then I’m going to do that wiggle dance.

True story, full confession, I’ve actually flared up my sciatica wearing a bad pair of jeggings that I had to pull up all day. I was like wiggling my hip in a way that my body did not like and I had a whole sciatica flare up. You can hurt yourself, ladies, with clothes that don’t fit.

Jill: Yes, I love this. If nothing else, if you take nothing else from this podcast, you can hurt yourself if you don’t wear clothes that fit.

Judith: Yeah, so when they’re putting on their running gear, imagine, and this is something, there’s a whole little- I don’t even know if we even got to this during our time together, there’s a little workbook by the way if you want to go look at it.

But it’s about writing your own hero’s story. But if we use your running gear as a signal to your brain that you’re now entering your running mode, or engage running mode, or whatever, use superhero language. You are now becoming that Superwoman version of you. You’re becoming the Wonder Woman version of you. How are you going to show up to fight crime or do your duty, right? We’re going to show up in a fabulous fucking cape, some amazing ass tights, and clothes that fit us.

Jill: Yeah.

Judith: We don’t show up to fight off the bad guys in a janky ass free swag t shirt.

Jill: Yes. Oh my gosh. Right, can you imagine if Wonder Woman showed up in an outfit that was too big or too tight? She would not be able to throw the golden lasso or do any kind of roundhouse kick. She would be completely useless.

Judith: She’s like, “Hold on bad guy, let me pull up my tights. Let me adjust my bra.”

Jill: Right, it just would not work. It just would not work.

So theoretically I think everybody gets this, right? They’re just like, “Yeah, okay, I get it. But either I need to lose weight first, or my butt doesn’t look good in spandex.” And so what are your thoughts about that? Where somebody says like, “I get it, but I cannot stand how I look in those outfits and so I’d rather wear something that covers me up, even if it interferes with my performance.”

Judith: Okay, so here’s what’s actually happening. Because the myth is that if I wear baggy clothes, I can hide my body. But I want you to think of clown shoes when a clown puts on shoes that are too big for it, it actually draws attention to the clown’s feet and we like zero in on these giant ass clown shoes. We never think to ourselves, “Oh, there must be a tiny little foot in there.” No, we’re like, “Oh my god, that’s like a giant ass feet, right?”

Same thing occurs when you wear clothes that are too big. And if your concern, and we could have a whole podcast on this topic. If your concern is with looking bigger than you appear, then the solution for that is not to wear clothes that are bigger. Because this is not Harry Potter, those are not invisibility cloaks. That will actually draw attention to the part of body that you’re trying so desperately to hide.

So it actually has the opposite effect than what you’re intending. So, nice try brain. I love how our brains offer up these solutions that actually really aren’t helpful.

Jill: Yeah.

Judith: So that would be the first thing I would say. The second thing I would say is how long will you hold your body hostage and your future hostage to this idea that you have to lose weight first? Because how many of us, and me too. Me too, sisters. Fellow Rebels, me too. How long have we held things on our to do list in this holding pattern? Because we keep telling ourselves one day, someday, when, when I lose the weight then I will win.

We are capable of doing all of that shit right now if we just take weight loss off the top of our to do list. It doesn’t have to have first place, it can maybe have like fourth billing. It doesn’t have to have first, top billing because I think that’s the saddest part.

Jill: And it doesn’t have to be, right. Because we think I have to finish, right? Because we’re all, especially women, we’re all like, “Okay, I have a to do list. And I always do the most important thing first.” And so if you put weight loss at the top of your to do list, and it’s something that’s frustrating for you or not working for you, or what have you, then you’re like, “Well, I can’t get to the other things until I do this thing first.”

Judith: Yeah. Because we think almost like, I’m not allowed.

Jill: Yeah, such bullshit.

Judith: It’s such bullshit, but it’s understandable. And if any of your listeners have been there, or are there, I’ve been there too. I get where you’re coming from. But really start to question that whole line of thinking. Like, “How long will I allow this to hold my future hostage?”

Jill: Yeah.

Judith: And you can decide forever, if that’s what you want. But please don’t decide that.

Jill: I know, right? One thing that I hear from my runners from time to time is, “Well, I would wear those bright colored tights if I were thinner.” Or, “I would wear a tank top if I wasn’t so embarrassed of my arms.” And I’m just like, “Oh, listen, wearing sleeves doesn’t make your arms look smaller. It just doesn’t.” It really doesn’t, it’s just your arms in sleeves.

But what do you think it is about, and maybe it’s just, you know, “Okay, when I’m bigger I need to wear black so that I look thinner.” What do you think it is about not wanting to wear bright colors or wear the styles that we want when we’re in a larger body?

Judith: I think we’re all socialized to believe that black is slimming and dark colors are slimming. As if that’s the goal of your clothes is to make you skinny, which it’s not. That is that your clothes job, we can let that off the hook.

And I think too, we give our clothes all this power and magic that it doesn’t have. They’re piles of fabric, and we are the magic bringers. We’re the ones who animate them, who bring them to life. So if we remember that and we come from that place versus like, “My clothing is required to make me feel thin, make me feel beautiful.” And we’re just like, “No, I decide I’m beautiful. I’m the one who gets to choose what I think about the size of my body.” Then we can approach getting ready very differently.

So if your body is not a problem, your size, weight, or shape are not a problem to be solved. Then what are you going to allow yourself the pleasure of wearing simply because you like it? Which is just, I mean you’re going to have to dismantle years of social programming to get to this place. But we’re in like a culture obsessed with smoothness and flatness.

Which is bizarre because if we look at natural human bodies, they’re not smooth, they’re not flat, they’re not wrinkle free. We’re weird, gangly, little creepy creatures and we have all these little bits dangling off of us. That is how we actually look, that’s how we actually appear. So we have to sort of like start with questioning like, “Why do I want to be smooth and flat and skinny?”

Jill: Yeah, right. And I guess it’s because then other people will approve of me. And it just kind of goes back to that giving other people all of the power over how we feel about ourselves. Like, I don’t want anybody else to be in charge of how I feel about myself, ever. Because they are not qualified.

Judith: No, you are your own best stylist. You really are. At the end of the day, you are your own best stylist.

Jill: I love that. And it’s so funny because after you and I worked together, I had already started wearing bikinis to the beach but I think in my brain I was like, “Okay, it’s okay for me to be fat and expose my stomach on the beach, because that’s where people expose their stomachs.” But I wouldn’t wear a crop top out in public. I was like that’s kind of where I drew the line.

And now that you and I worked together I’m like, “Oh, I can wear crop tops in public.” It’s so funny how even I still had this weird segregation of my abdomen can be exposed at the beach where it is appropriate to expose abdomens of any size, but not when I go to Wegmans to do my grocery shopping.

Judith: Here’s where we draw the line, yeah.

Jill: Yeah, it’s just so fun that I feel like once you kind of- Maybe you find this with your clients, once you kind of unlock the first step, and maybe it is just the little secret of like, “I’ve got sexy underwear on today and nobody knows it.” But once you tip over one domino the next domino falls. And they might not all fall all in a row, but the ongoing effects of that are so fun to watch.

Judith: Oh, it’s so fun to watch. Especially from a coaching perspective. Once I see my clients are like, “Oh wait, I wore the sexy undies, the sky didn’t fall. Nobody really actually noticed and I got to have this giggle with myself all day. Holy shit. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute, so I can wear those jeans that show the imprint of my belly?” And then you wear the jeans and you’re like, “The sky didn’t fall. Nobody noticed. I like the way I looked and felt. Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, I could wear a crop top?” Then it’s like they build this like rapport with themselves and they realize nothing bad is going to happen.

Jill: Yeah, it’s so fun. I wore my jeans last night that you and I picked out together that have like a button fly front.

Judith: Oh my god, yes, the peach jeans? The little peachy jeans?

Jill: Yes, oh my God, my ass looks so amazing in those jeans.

Judith: They really do.

Jill: And I have to tell you, I just walk around on a daily basis now, I just look at my butt in the mirror and I’m like, “You are magnificent.” It’s ridiculous, the love affair I’m having with my ass right now. So thank you for that.

Judith: No, I love that. We should all sort of like have this love affair with ourselves where we’re like, “Oh, hey. Hey girl, hey.” I would love if every woman got in front of a mirror and had that sort of magical moment with herself where she’s like, “Hey, boo, I see you. How you doing? What’s your name? What’s your size?”

Jill: It’s so good.  And the best part is I didn’t have to lose a single pound to do it. It’s so fun.

Okay, there’s another thing that I kind of wanted to touch on today. And that is, just kind of in the concept of signaling, you had talked about how we signal our bodies for the next activity. We put on uniforms and stuff, but then The Rona came and kind of like, you know, I’ve heard you talk about this before, it sort of messed up all of our signaling.

So now that people are getting vaccinated and we’re going back to work in person and we’re going out in public. How do you come back from a year of wearing your pajamas at least on the bottom and maybe a nice shirt on top to Zoom meetings? How do you like re learn how to reenter society and maybe come back stronger and fiercer than before?

Judith: Yeah, okay, so there’s a few things just sort of like mindset wise, I think we sort of lay like a foundation, an umbrella, if you will. I think a lot of women thought that this was their time to lose all the weight, get super in shape, and have a glow up when they opened the door to their house to come out from The Rona.

Like the heavens were going to sing, their hair was going to be blown back, their skin was going to be perfect. Everything was going to be amazing. And for most people that was not the reality. And there’s like this level of disappointment that they should have done more. And I just want to let everyone collectively off the hook.

No, you should not have done more. You survived. We’re so glad to have you, human. Please, please, please give yourself some grace that maybe this is not exactly what you had planned in the before time when you first heard that there was going to be this pandemic that we thought was going to last six weeks. We all thought it was going to be our time to get in shape and shine, please give yourself some grace.

Jill: And wait, it’s not like it was the summer between ninth and 10th grade, right? When you got your braces off.

Judith: You’re like, “I grew these breasts over the summer.” Yeah, it’s a little different.

Jill: It’s a fucking worldwide pandemic, right? Nobody knew what to do.

Judith: Like, “I stopped having acne and I magically grew these breasts, please look at them.” Like it’s very different, it’s very different. Yeah, but I think women thought this was going to be like the summer between ninth and 10th grade where they had this sort of like, you know, ingenue kind of ugly duckling makeover moment. And like, no. No, no, no, please be kind and gracious to yourselves.

So that’s just sort of, I wanted to drop that there, because I see this coming up in a lot of my coaching recently. So I just wanted to give that to your people.

Now, from a practical standpoint, I think one of the biggest things facing a lot of people is their clothes don’t fit.

Jill: I’m raising my hand.

Judith: Yeah, I mean, even I had to buy- I went on a dress shopping spree at five o’clock this morning. I was like, “I need new dresses.” I bought five of them, I was on a roll. Don’t ever shop at 5am, it’s probably a bad idea. But we’re all facing, to some degree, our clothes don’t fit us anymore. So the first thing we need to do is just go through our closets, figure out what doesn’t fit, what does fit, and what needs some replacing, right away.

Jill: Yeah.

Judith: We don’t have to buy everything under the sun. Let’s start with the one item you know you’re probably going to be wearing the most when you interact with more humans. Like for some of you it’s going to be you’re going to need a pair of jeans. And you’re just going to need to buy a pair of jeans in the size you are now. For some of you, all of your T-shirts got real gross and janky, we just need to up-level and buy a clean pack of T-shirts.

Let’s start small, find the one item you know you’re going to wear the most. Spend some money on that. Start there, build that rapport with yourself again. And that’s a great way to sort of get back to normal, get back to some normality, whatever that’s going to mean for us in the future.

But I don’t think we have to go by all the things because I think that’s kind of overwhelming some people and that’s the thought they’re having. You don’t have to. We just pick the one item you’re going to wear the most, let’s start there.

And I also think it’s kind of really important to realize that if you want to start signaling to your brain what time of day it is again and what activity you’re going to be doing, start even just in your own house. Like rocking some comfy shoes, because a lot of us didn’t wear shoes for the past year. Start wearing shoes again. Even if you’re going to stay in your jammies, wash that ass, do that hair, do that makeup, and put on fresh jammies. And that’s how you’re just going to roll today.

There’s somewhere you can start the signaling process without having it to be this huge ordeal. And I think that’s just sort of the small tips to get started for re-entry.

Jill: Yeah. And this is a great time to evaluate the routine that you had before the pandemic and be like, “Was that actually working for me? Or maybe I want to switch things up a little bit.” Maybe I didn’t need to do all the things and maybe I actually feel great doing a little bit less makeup. Or maybe I don’t have to, I don’t know, I like it’s been so long since I went to work in an office, I don’t even remember what people do before they leave the house.

Judith: Well a lot of people stopped doing their hair full out, stopped wearing makeup completely. So I don’t think you need to go back and do a full face. I think it’s a great point to bring up. Maybe start with some chapstick, make sure your face is moisturized, hit up that neck a little bit and then call it a day.

That’s where you want to start, just like these little acts of self-care. But it doesn’t have to be a whole thing. And it doesn’t have to be everything you did before. It can be some version of it that you want to decide to keep and then you can throw out the rest and that’s okay.

Jill: Yeah. And so this is related slightly, slightly not. But when I stopped getting the grocery deliveries and started going back to the grocery store, I was still like, “I don’t want to get all dressed up all my cute clothes and stuff just to go to the grocery store. But I don’t want to go in my pajamas.” So I invested in some super cute athleisure. I’ve got these like super cute joggers with a pattern on them from Athleta and a couple really cute little coats. Workout gear coats that I probably will actually never wear for running because I just love them so much.

Judith: Because they’re fashionable items.

Jill: Right, they’re super fashionable. And I’ll tell you what, I feel kind of super cute going to the grocery store wearing very stylish athleisure. And it sort of bridges the gap between my pajamas and my grown up clothes. And I’ll put on a little makeup and maybe do my hair. But then I’ll be like, “But I still get to be comfy and cute.”

And investing in athleisure that I really like has been kind of a game changer. And, again, I don’t go to an office every day so I’m not required to wear those kind of clothes. Even though I do sometimes because it’s fun just for me around the house.

And I think that’s another thing too, that you taught me. That I can get all dressed up and not even leave my apartment and I could just do it for myself. That’s so fun.

Judith: Yeah, you give yourself the pleasure and the joy of turning on music, getting ready, having the whole experience. Even if you’re just going to talk to some people on Zoom and then that’s it for the day. That’s still worth it.

Jill:  Yeah, totally.

Judith: Yeah, and even if you’re not ready to go back to a pair of jeans, or let’s say like a pair of trousers, like proper trousers. There’s so many elastic waist options these days that are really cute. You can buy a really cute pair of joggers, some amazing like paper bag waist pants that have tons of room. There’s so many like cute jeggings and leggings out there that have seams so they look like trousers, but they’re really just leggings. Like there are so many options.

And I love that you have a little uniform for running errands, right? You have your little outfit formula. I’m going to put on a cutie little jacket and my joggers, a blouse, I’m going to roll. Anyone can create that sort of formula for themselves.

I’m loving right now for a lot of my clients satin and really nice Pima Cotton like bomber jackets.

Jill: Oh, yeah.

Judith: So they look a little elevated, but they feel so nice. And you’re putting on a jacket. Like you’re heading out to do your thing. You’re still looking what you would sort of call polished, but you’re wearing clothing that feels good and is super comfortable. So there’s tons of options.

Jill: Yeah, and that’s so true. And you know what I’ve also elevated in the past six months or so? Is my leisure footwear game. So I’ve got like a pair of hot pink suede Puma, I don’t know, they’re not running shoes, they’re just sneakers. And then I’ve got a pair of leopard print and a pair of leopard print Vans and a pair of Aqua like cotton twill. And oh my gosh, my white leather Keds, I’m obsessed with them. They go with everything.

Judith: Very cute.

Jill: So it’s just been super fun to like, “Okay, how can I take cute athleisure and zhuzh it up a little bit so that I feel kind of like fun and funky when I go to the store or the mall or something?

Judith: Yeah, you don’t have to rock a heel all of a sudden, especially if you haven’t been wearing shoes. We can find you some cute tennies and sneakers to rock, even with a dress.

Jill: Yes. Oh my gosh, the white leather Keds go with almost all of my dresses. I’m not wearing like ball gowns, you know? And that is so fun. That’s so fun. And those are things that I learned from you about mixing things up and just being willing to try things. And I don’t know, you kind of gave me sort of a personal style guide that now, when I’m shopping I follow that and I think, “Okay, is that fierce, feminine, and or fun? Okay. If it is not at least one of those things it is not going into my closet.

Judith: Yeah, and that’s your definition. You get to decide what that means to you any given season, which is kind of fun to reinvent whenever you want.

Jill: Yeah, it so is. Oh my gosh, well this has been, I feel like we probably need to do a part two of this conversation.

Judith: I’m so down.

Jill: Excellent, excellent. But what is something that you would like everybody to know before we kind of close down today? And then I want you to tell everybody where they can find you. If they want to work with you how they can do that. But what’s something that you think every woman should know about her clothing, her style, her body?

Judith: You know, something I’ve sort of been leaving people with lately and it’s been resonating with them so I’ll say it for your peeps too. If you were the hero or the leading lady and you’re not the side kick and all the clothing is auditioning for you. You don’t have to do anything to your body.

We don’t have to go on diets or try to get you into like the role. No, you’re already the leading lady of this movie, you don’t have to do a damn thing to yourself. Every piece of clothing is auditioning for you. Some of the things are going to make the cut and some of them aren’t. That doesn’t mean anything about you, your body, your weight, your size, your shape.

Jill: I love that so much. It’s so good, right? Because it’s your clothes job to work with you and not the other way around.

Judith: Yeah, the clothing must conform to your body. That’s why we have tailors. We don’t have to go to a plastic surgeon because you want to wear a certain shirt. That’s absurd.  No, the clothing must conform to you. The clothing must be tailored to you. Not a damn thing has to change about you ever.

Jill: I love that so much, it’s perfect. It’s perfect. Okay, so how can people find you? Where’s the best place?

Judith: Yeah, judithgaton.com, they can just click on the main button and it’ll take them to a free little course all about bullshit fashion rules and why they suck and why we shouldn’t listen to them. So yeah, you could just hang out on my website, judithgaton.com and then play around there, you can find out more information about me and where I hang out on the socials.

Jill: Okay, because you are all over Instagram. I see you have some beautiful things on Instagram. You recently just did a challenge. Oh my gosh. And it was so- What was the most recent challenge that you did on Instagram?

Judith: There with Camp Glamp and then there was Big Ass Style.

Jill: That was it, Big Ass Style, because I have a big ass and so that immediately spoke to me. And you do those pretty frequently, right?

Judith: Yeah, and I think you can actually- I haven’t taken the page down so I’ll send you the link so that they can get the Big Ass Style workbook.

Jill: Oh, I love this.

Judith: And there’s playlists in there. The playlist is dedicated to big asses, so it’s like one of the most fun playlists ever. But the three day challenge information is there something. It’s something that you could definitely learn from, do on your own. So we’ll make sure that you get access to the Big Ass Style Challenge, for sure.

Jill: Oh, that’s perfect. Okay, so we will put that in a link on the show notes page for this episode. So if you’re listening to this episode, I think you should be able to just go into whatever podcast app you’ve got, there’ll be a link to the show notes. Go there and then we will make sure that we have a link to the Big Ass Style Challenge. So good, oh my gosh.

Judith: And hey, we’re going to be doing a big ass party. Yes, pun intended, fairly soon so stay tuned.

Jill: Oh, good. Absolutely, love it. Okay. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I can’t wait to have you back. And then we’ll talk more about big asses and style.

Judith: Yes.

Jill: Yes, so good. All right, thank you very much.

Judith: Thank you for having me, so good to see you.

Oh, and one last thing. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, you have to check out the Rebel Runner Roadmap. It’s a 30 day online program that will teach you exactly how to start running, stick with it, and become the runner you’ve always wanted to be. Head on over to rebelrunnerroadmap.com to join. I’d love to be a part of your journey.