Ep #206: Making Time for Yourself with NYAR Ambassador Lisa Russell

Welcome to the Not Your Average Runner podcast. If you’re a woman who has never felt athletic but you still dream about becoming a runner, you are in the right place. I’m Jill Angie, a certified running and life coach and I teach women how to start running, feel confident, and change their lives. And now, I want to help you.

Jill: Hey Rebels. So I’m back this week with another Not Your Average Runner Ambassador, her name is Lisa Russell. And she is a wife, mom, runner, crafter, photographer, reader, and she also works full time, in addition to all of those other things.

So we’re going to chat with her today about her running, where she has come from, where she’s going, her thoughts on injury, her thoughts on making time for yourself as somebody who is a busy wife, a mom, and full time employee. And we’re going to talk about empowerment for women as well. So it’s going to be a great conversation. And, Lisa, thank you so much for joining me today. I’m so excited you’re here.

Lisa: Thank you Jill, I’m so excited to be here.

Jill: So I think what I would love to do today is just to kind of like talk a little bit about where you have been in the past. Because you’ve been a runner since 2008, right?

Lisa: That is correct.

Jill: Yeah. So you’ve been a runner for, you know, 13 years, right? So you’ve seen some shit along the way. But tell me a little bit about how you got started running. And, of course, you’ve gone through the Rebel Runner Roadmap, and you’re a current Run Your Best Life member and Ambassador. So I’d love to know what was running like for you when you first started and how are things for you now?

Lisa: I started running in 2008. My ex-husband is still a very active person who bikes and runs, and he was doing that long before I ever met him. And it was just something that intrigued me because he seemed to enjoy it so much, to be active. And being active was not something that I grew up doing.

So I told him one day, “Show me what to do.” And he said, “Run.” And so that was not very helpful, but it definitely was the motivation I needed thinking along the lines of, “If he can do it, I can do it.”

So I actually downloaded Couch to 5K and started working from there to run a 5K. I ran my first 5K in July of 2008.

Jill: Oh my gosh, that’s awesome. So you were like, “I’m going to make this happen.”

Lisa: I’m going to make this happen. I still have that photograph from crossing the finish line.

Jill: You know, it’s so funny, I do not have a finish line from crossing my first 5K because it was so many years ago. It was kind of before they took pictures of anybody that wasn’t in the top three. But I still have the mug. They didn’t do metals, they did the mugs.

Because I think your first 5K, it’s like your first kiss, it’s like your first first romantic partner, you’re always going to remember it. Maybe fondly, maybe not so fondly. For me it’s very fondly.

So I love that you ran your first 5K 13 years ago. So bring us up to present date. So what’s happened in between that time?

Lisa: A lot of intermittent running. Because I was running in 2008, I ultimately ended up heading into a divorce that same year from my now ex-husband. And I ran even–

Jill: Wait, can I just ask?

Lisa: Yes.

Jill: Were you just faster than him and he couldn’t handle it?

Lisa: No, no.

Jill: I was really hoping that was the reason.

Lisa: That was not the reason. He actually had already run several marathons at that point in time, so there’s no way I was going to outrun him. But what I found is that running became meditative for me in a lot of the healing that I was trying to do.

I will definitely be truthful and say there was a little bit of running from versus running as healing. But running was definitely a healing mechanism for me. But one of the things that I found in 2008 and then 2010 when I restarted running, and 2012 when I restarted running, is that when I would back off of running it was because I was telling myself that for whatever reason I couldn’t make it work in my life as it had adapted into whatever it was at the time.

So I kept finding myself stopping running and missing running but convincing myself there’s no way I can do it. I don’t have time. It’s too hard. Whatever the story was.

Jill: Okay. So I think that’s pretty common, right? That’s pretty common.

Lisa: It’s very common.

Jill: Yeah.

Lisa:  It’s very common. Ultimately, I spent a lot of my off running time laying in bed at night thinking, “I really want to get back into running. I miss running. I miss having that slot of time where it’s just me in the road.” And I had been watching Elsbeth. She was the one that actually got me involved in Run Your Best Life. She kept posting about things she was doing. And there was a little snippet that crossed Facebook about the Rebel Runner Roadmap. I said, “You know what? I’m going to do this.”

Now I will tell the backstory, and that is that several years ago I started listening to Brooke Castillo from The Life Coach School, started doing some of that thought work. I was in Self Coaching Scholars for a little bit. I actually work with a couple of other coaches who’ve been through The Life Coach School because I love the model so much.

And so I was already on that path of this is where I need to be. If I want to be a runner and truly attach it to the positive and the right thoughts that are going to keep me running, then this is what I need to join.

Jill: Yeah. First of all, I love that so much. I love it when I find out that people are already familiar with the model. Because I mean, what we do in the roadmap, what we do in Run Your Best Life is really teach people how to think differently about running. I mean, we teach people how to get started running, and there’s a lot of coaching about the actual actions and specifics. But, I mean, so much of running is mental that the thought work is so profoundly helpful.

Lisa: Profoundly.

Jill: When you are having thoughts like, “I don’t have time,” or “I’m not very good at this,” or whatever thoughts you’re having that cause you to stop, the thought work is so powerful. So I’m so glad that you– I mean, Brooke is one of my favorite people. So I’m so glad that you follow her and that you’re on board with the thought work.

Okay, so how did your thinking about running change before and after you went through the roadmap and started applying the thought model to your running?

Lisa: It’s really interesting because as much work as I have done with the model and on a lot of different thoughts, after joining the roadmap within 24 hours, I remember telling myself, “I can’t believe you haven’t ever applied this thought work to running before. Where have you been?”

One of the things that I wanted to ensure that I was getting from the roadmap, and of course there’s a week that we spend time working on our thoughts, is my reasons for quitting running in the past. And the bottom line for me is all of that noise about I don’t have time, it takes away from my family, it interferes with work, whatever, really is an undercurrent of I’m not worthy.

Jill: Yeah.

Lisa: And that is what I knew was going to come out of working through the roadmap. And one of the things that was even more profound in the roadmap is the community. The community of women who are telling you, whether they say it outright or it’s in some other type of conversation you’re having, is that you are worthy. You are worthy of taking time for yourself. And that’s where I wanted to be, and that’s where I’ve come to now. It’s so exciting, it makes me tear up actually.

Jill: Well, yeah, because when you believe I’m worth taking the time to do this, then it sort of– Because I think many women, or caretakers in general, have a belief that everybody else has to come first. It’s a selfless act to put everybody else first and then give to yourself last. And so is that what you believed before you started changing your thinking? Or did you believe differently?

Lisa: I had some beliefs that echoed a little bit of that. That somehow if I took time away for myself, it was taking time away from someone else. But more than anything the belief was that I couldn’t make enough time for myself.

And of course, one of the things we work on in the roadmap and in Run Your Best Life is our minimum baseline. What are we willing to do on a daily basis? And I think a lot of the times as athletes, for women, we spend time thinking, “Well, it has to be 30 minutes. It has to be five miles.” There’s a lot of shoulds out there. And instead, I had the belief that– Because I did have that belief, that it had to be something. Just like I had the belief that we had to run nonstop to be a true runner.

So that was a huge change for me. It has to be for me, and for me can be any way I define it.

Jill: Yeah, that’s really a powerful statement. Because that means you’re owning the solution, instead of looking around and saying, “Well, everybody else says I need to do it this way, so I’m just failing because I can’t do it that way.” Or whatever story you’re telling yourself.

Lisa: Exactly.

Jill: So let’s talk a little bit about the minimum baseline. Because I’ve covered that in the podcast before, but what did your minimum baseline look like when you first started changing your thinking about running? Where did you set your minimum baseline? And what did that look like for you?

Lisa: My minimum baseline when I first started was 10 minutes, 10 to 15 minutes. I was very determined in prior running stretches that when I stepped out of the door, as I mentioned, that it had to be for, I don’t know where the 30 minute mark came from in running. Or it had to be for two miles or three miles or whatever the distance was. And I told myself that the worst thing that would happen if I only went out for 10 minutes was that I would be hungry for more and I would go longer. Because 10 minutes was nothing.

And of course, for me, like it is for a lot of other runners, once you get going it’s like, “This is great, I love this.” And you feel good. I also set my minimum baseline to– there’s a little bit of intervals that are wrapped up into Couch to 5K, but they are not the same intervals that we teach in Run Your Best Life. And so my minimum baseline also became a matter of we’re going to do this in true interval fashion and see how it feels. Because I can always change those.

Jill: Yeah.

Lisa: Both of those made a huge difference.

Jill: Yes, I love that. And just for anybody who’s listening, who’s wondering the difference between Couch to 5K and the interval approach that I teach in the Roadmap is couch to 5K you do intervals with the intention that you will be running the entire distance within six weeks or eight weeks, or however long the program is.

Versus the way I teach it, which is you’ve got to choose a ratio of running to walking that works for you. And then you don’t have to change that. There’s no rule that says you’re working towards running without stopping. Which if that’s the thing you want to do, that’s totally fine. But it’s not a requirement, it’s not like built in.

Okay, so you started out with I’m going to do 10 minutes. And the thought that you just dropped, the worst that could happen is I’m going to be hungry for more is mind blowing, right? Because it’s really like that’s an awesome thing to have happen. But I love the minimum baseline, because nobody ever regrets doing something. The only thing we regret is doing nothing.

And so just that reframing, the worst that could happen is I’ll be hungry for more is so beautiful. So I want everybody who’s listening to borrow that thought. Because it’s a good one, right? It’s a good one.

So can you talk about the intervals that you used as well? So when you were doing your 10 minute minimum baseline, which I’m assuming probably turned into more than 10 minutes much of the time. But what were the intervals that you used as well?

Lisa: Well, it’s funny that you talk about the 10 minutes, because after a couple of days I realized it takes me five minutes to get to the end of my long block. There’s a strip center with retail down there, and then it takes me five minutes to get back. So my 10 minutes I figured I’d go there and come back. But of course I get to the strip center and I think, “I didn’t go that far. I’m going to keep going.”

So I started with 60/60 intervals, I think. I’d have to actually go back and look. It may have been 30/60 though. But what I actually did, I use Runkeeper as a free app and I actually set up multiple intervals where I worked through adding 15 seconds and taking 15 seconds away from the various walk run pieces. And then I just tried a bunch of them until I found something that feels pretty good. I can do this.

Jill: I love that so much because one of the questions I get asked so often is, “What is the best interval?” And I’m like, “I don’t know.” It’s like what is the best running shoe, right?

Lisa: The one that works for you.

Jill: Yeah, it’s the one that fits your foot the best. And it may change over your lifetime as a runner. It may actually change, like you might want to do one interval ratio on a long run and a different one on a short run. So I love that you have Runkeeper set up with a bunch of different ones so you could just go in and pick the one you want.

Lisa: Just start one and try a different one if it didn’t work out.

Jill: Yeah, I feel like Runkeeper is the best free app that nobody knows about. Because the free version of Runkeeper is so wildly functional that you, and I’m sorry for the Runkeeper people because I know they want to make money, but you don’t really need any more than the free version. It’s such a great app. Such a great app.

Okay, so you did a 5K in 2008 and then you kind of like stopped and started, and I can relate to that, I’ve done that as well. But talk to me about some of your favorite races along the way. What are you training for now? Let’s come to a more current time frame.

Lisa: Well, one of my favorite races, of course, will always be the first 5K that I ran in July of 2008. Now I live outside of the Houston area in Texas. So, of course, July was the stupidest month to pick a first 5K. But I’m actually really used to the heat now when it comes to running so it doesn’t bother me.

I will say though, that probably the most fun that I had on a 5K was actually not far from here in the neighborhood. And it was because I had connected up with a group of people. I don’t know if you remember Runner’s World Magazine, their online forums they used to have. I met a bunch of people through their online forums and some people were local.

And it was the first run that I had done where I didn’t run with people per se, because I didn’t run at a pace that they did. But that’s okay, I met people afterwards and realized that there was a running community.

Jill: I love that.

Lisa: So that was probably the most fun.

Jill: I love that.

Lisa: I have run a lot of 5Ks, I just find it to be a very comfortable distance for me. But once I joined Run Your Best Life and I was looking at the goal setter portion of Run Your Best Life where we choose a goal and we outline everything that needs to happen for that goal, I decided I’d for a 10K.

And I want to underscore that I chose the 10K for completely different reasons than I had ever chose running any distance in the past. Because prior I also had realized that one of the things that kept pushing me to quit running was that I didn’t think I was running the way I should be running. I wasn’t running as fast as I thought I should be running for as long as I had been running. I had not run a 10K, but I should be running a 10K. Again, a lot of shoulds.

And I kept quitting because in my brain I wasn’t making the progress that I thought I should. And Run Your Best Life taught me I define my progress. I don’t define my progress by what is happening externally to me. So for me, I really sat and thought a long time about whether or not I wanted that 10K to be a goal. And I did a lot of thought work around why I wanted it to be that goal. And then I finally settled on the 10K.

And a big part of it was outlining all the steps that were going to get me to that goal.

Jill: Yeah. Oh yeah, because we have a pretty detailed process in Run Your Best Life for like, if you’ve set a goal here’s how you go after it, regardless of what the goal is. So okay, do you feel comfortable sharing your reasons for why you chose the 10K?

Lisa: Absolutely. I actually have been written down because I keep it handy here.

Jill: Oh, I love this. Girl, you’re organized.

Lisa: To a fault sometimes. But it sounds so fucking basic to say this, but the number one reason that I wrote down for wanting to do a 10K is because I know I can do it.

And like I said, it sounds kind of basic but switching the thought and the words that I was telling myself, rather than saying, “Well, I’ll have to do X to run a 10K. It will be like this to run a 10K.” There was a lot of negatives in past thoughts about running a 10K. I decided this time around I can run a 10K and I will run a 10K. And that was that. So that was my number one reason for choosing that goal, because I told myself I could do it.

Jill: Oh I love that. And I think so often we choose a goal because of how we think we will feel when we finish the goal. Which is, you know, proud, accomplished, badass, whatever it is. But by choosing the thought “I can do this” you got to feel those emotions before you finished the race.

And I think that’s what keeps us training, is when you start to feel proud during the training process. When you start to feel badass during the training process, you don’t actually need the results to give you the feeling you want. The result is just like this beautiful bonus at the end.

Lisa: Yes, and hindsight, I will say, that now that I’m injured and I’m not training for that 10K at the moment, having that reason for doing it made all the difference in the world about how I approached the injury.

Jill: Okay, say more about that because this is like, everybody listen up because Lisa’s going to drop some truth bombs right now.

Lisa: Well, because the truth is I will still run that 10K. I can do it. I will do it. I’m just not training for it right now because the important thing is to rest and heal my injury.

Jill: Wait, I’m going to interrupt and say you are training for it right now. You’re in the phase of training where you’re preparing your body to start running again.

Lisa: Yes, exactly. And that has made a huge difference in my approach because normally in talking about injuries we usually throw ourselves down on the couch. And I said earlier, you know, throw ourselves into a bag of Cheetos.

But instead, I not only threw myself into, rather than the negative thoughts of, “I can’t do this. What am I going to do? Whoa is me.” I did have a day of that, but I moved into “Okay, what can I do? What can I do?” Of course I have physical therapy. But the doctor told me I could do non-impact cardio. Okay, let me go figure out a way to do some non-impact cardio.

He said I could do weight training, which I had done a lot of strength training at home, but I amped it up and I started working with a personal trainer. And I also decided that goal sheet is still sitting here in my book, but I ended up making a whole other goal setter for strength training.

Jill: Yes, I love that. I love that. I mean, you know exactly how I feel about personal trainers. Like they are a gift to the world.

Lisa: They are a gift to the world.

Jill: I feel like personal trainers are right up there with hospital workers, right? If you’re a runner, they totally are. Okay, so what was the thought that you think you would have had before? Say you’d gotten injured three years ago or something. What do you think the thought you would have had would be?

Lisa: It’s interesting that you ask that because, of course, part of what we learn with the model is that your thoughts ultimately create your results. And the thought that I would have had was, “Well, I can’t do it.” And, of course, the result would be that I not only couldn’t do it, I wouldn’t do it. And I would just spin out into stopping running probably for two years again, and that would have been that.

And “I can’t do it” is not – even now when I think about if the doctor had told me, “I don’t think you will ever run again.” I’m like, “Okay, well, can we get to the point where I could walk a 10K?”

Jill: You’re like, “How am I going to make this happen?”

Lisa: How am I going to make this happen? Because I want to cross the 10K line and I will cross the 10K line.

Jill: Yeah, I love that. Because I think there is so much value in giving your brain a question that is going to lead you to the result that you want. When you ask yourself like, “Oh my gosh, what am I going to do now? Running is over for me.” That’s a totally different question than, “What do I need to do to make this happen?” Or “What can I do?” Because then your brain is like, “All right, well, let’s figure out what we can do.” Instead of like wallowing in the Cheetos.

Lisa: Exactly.

Jill: I mean, nothing against Cheetos.

Lisa: No, I love Cheetos too. And I don’t want to minimize people who have been through larger tragedies. And certainly my experience is nowhere near someone who, for example, was injured at the bombing of the Boston Marathon. But there are runners who were not able to run again after that incident who have picked up other sports and have gone on to do some amazing things.

And that is the kind of brain that I want to have. I want to have the one that doesn’t say, “Well fine, I’m just going to give up.” I want to say like, “Okay, well, what can I do?”

Jill: Exactly. That’s the brain of somebody who’s like, “All right, maybe running is done for me right now, maybe not. But maybe it is. What else can I do that’s going to give me that same joy?”

And the thing I love about, you know, I think I’ve read at least two articles about people who lost limbs or parts of limbs during that bombing and are running again. They just figured it out.

Lisa: They figured it out.

Jill: It’s like, “Okay, I need to go see a specialist who can create an apparatus or something. And then I need to figure out how to use that.” Those are the people that they just keep going because they’re thinking, “What can I do? How can I continue to move forward? How can I make this happen?” Versus, “Oh, it’s all over.”

Lisa: Exactly.

Jill: Yeah, so powerful. So tell me a little bit about what’s going on with you injury wise. You have a few more weeks of physical therapy, is that correct?

Lisa: I do. It started with what felt like Achilles. Which I do have, not an Achilles injury, I have tight calves that are just pulling on my Achilles. It’s really shin splints, which is sort of a catch all for a shin inflammation or injury. But he suspects, the doctor suspects a stress fracture.

Jill: Okay, yeah. Right, because shin splints generally resolve on their own. And shin splints are something that you’re going to see more with beginning runners. And then like once they kind of get everything working and get used to the load of running, it tends to go away.

So if you’re a runner who’s been doing it for a while and then suddenly, you’re getting shin splints, then yeah, that’s when I’m like, “Um, this probably isn’t shin splints.”

And there have been members of Run Your Best Life who have had stress fractures in that area. And it does take a while. It’s not like you can get a cast, that’s just not how we treat those injuries so it just takes a while and it takes some gentle love.

Lisa: And I’ve also approached this injury though, from the standpoint of, to quote another coach that’s went through Life Coach School that I listen to and work with is, how can you be a scientist? How can you learn about where to move from what you know?

Jill: Yes.

Lisa: So the questions that I have asked along the way help me move into another space of what can I do? So, obviously, I asked the doctor, “Well, what kinds of things can I do? If you don’t want me walking for exercise, you don’t want me running obviously, what can I do?”

But in the process of PT, one of the things that we’ve discovered is I have kind of a lopsided gait. And in asking more questions and working through it with the personal trainer it turns out my left side, which is where my injury is, is a lot weaker than my right side. So I am using that information to move into what can I do? I can strengthen my left side.

Jill: Yes. I think almost every running injury, with the exception of if you trip and fall and sprain your ankle, right, that’s a different story. But any kind of overuse injury, the question you should be asking is, “What is this here to teach me? Where is the weakness that is coming out in this particular injury? And what do I need to do to fix it?”

So it’s really an opportunity to kind of like strengthen yourself so that you can go farther without injury in the future. So that’s why I say it’s part of your training. Like you’re still training, it’s just you’re in a different phase of your training. You’re not in the running part of your training, you’re in the strength building and shoring up any weaknesses part of your training. That’s all, that’s all.

I love that, right? And for sure I’ve had multiple injuries that have pointed to, for me it’s always weak glutes. Now, my glutes are so strong right now. I had enough injuries that were as a result of weak glutes. I was like, “That’s never going to happen to me again.”

But yeah, it’s just, I think when you use an injury as an opportunity to get to know your body better and to like bring in other professionals to be part of your team if that’s within your resources, it’s so powerful. So you’ve got a doctor, you’ve got a personal trainer, you’ve got coaches all helping you on the physical and the mental sides of things.

Lisa: Yes.

Jill: I love that.

Lisa: And it wouldn’t have come from any other previous opportunity or injury in my running career, unless I had been part of Run Your Best Life. Because of course, one of the things we talked about right up front in Rebel Runner Roadmap is strength training. And then, of course, we get real deep into it in Run Your Best Life.

And so I was definitely doing it, it wasn’t as if I was ignoring that piece of it. But it really underscores that you can hit the pavement every day for hours on end, but I truly believe, and I believe you do too, you’re never going to be a fully well rounded runner until and unless you pick up strength training.

Jill: Yeah, you’re running will always be limited by the capacity of your muscles, for sure. Because I think like a lot of people think like, “Oh, I need to work on my cardiovascular fitness.” And for sure you definitely need to do that if you want to go longer distances. But I think that’s secondary to making sure that your musculature is locked and loaded and ready to go.

Lisa: Yes. And that is a huge part too for Run Your Best Life for me. The community of women, especially when I became injured, but certainly before that. Watching them and knowing that a lot of these women are already doing other things.

Whether they are straight up got a huge workout bench going in their backyard or their garage and deadlifting crazy amounts of weight. Or they’re doing things that we don’t necessarily think about as runners. Like Taekwondo, and yoga, and a lot of other things. Not only helped me understand the strength training going into this pre-injury but now that I’m injured the wealth of ideas that people bring to the table that are like, “You know I’m going to try that.”

In fact I bought a pair of goggles because I’m going to try swimming some laps. I’m probably going to be terrible at it, at least form wise, but I don’t care. That’s a cardio piece I can do so I’m going to go give it a shot.

Jill: And, I mean, it’s going to make your first triathlon a lot easier if you start swimming now.

Lisa: Never say never.

Jill: I know, right? You laugh, but now the seed has been planted and a year from now you’re going to be like, “So guess what I signed up for?”

Lisa: Like the 50K that’s out there.

Jill: I know, I love how many women in the Run Your Best Life group are jumping onto the ultra-marathon bandwagon. And it’s so much so that we now have a dedicated coaching call every month just to that, it’s so fun. It’s so fun.

So one more question I want to ask you is, I know that you find running to be a very meditative activity. And so I’m kind of wondering what that looks like for you. Do you use it as a form of meditation? Or is it more the way you feel? Can you say a little bit more about what that means to you?

Lisa: For me, I typically run with music. But it’s always a background piece of information. It’s not as if I’m actively paying attention to the music because running is a way for me to disconnect from everything else.

I can’t read my– First of all, when I have my contacts in and I’m running I can’t see anything up close. I do have a pair of bifocal sunglasses in case I do need to read my watch. But they’re obviously not very practical for trying to do other things.

So I can’t respond to emails, I can’t respond to texts. And I just find that it gives me an opportunity to not only disconnect from all the things that I think as women we feel like are drawing our attention away from our true selves and what we truly want to do passionately. But it also gives me an opportunity to just observe the world.

I run in my neighborhood or in a nearby park so I suppose that some people would say there’s probably nothing interesting to look at. But I have really worked on finding the gratitude in that I am able to run or get out, if I can’t run for whatever reason, like I’m injured now. That I am able to see and hear and experience the world around me. Whether it’s the suburbs, or the city, or a park, it’s there for me to enjoy.

Jill: I absolutely love that. And it’s so true, wherever you’re running there’s something to see, there’s something to be grateful for. And we experience the world so differently on our feet than we do in a car or behind the lens of a camera or any other way. There’s something very, I don’t even know the word for it. I’m going to say the word special, but that doesn’t even begin to describe it, about experiencing the world by yourself on your own two feet.

Lisa: Yes, it’s a connection to the earth even though you have shoes on. I suppose some people run barefoot. But for me, it’s a connection to the earth. It’s just like an energy that comes up from that outdoor experience. And I’m certain that if I were to try trail running or an ultra-marathon, there probably would be an even greater energy draw that comes from it.

Jill: Running in the woods is just such a fantastic experience. It really is.

Lisa: But we create our own experiences too, right?

Jill: Yeah.

Lisa: So when I head out on that, for me turning it into a meditative experience means that I purposely walk out the door with the thought of, “What am I going to take from this experience?”

Jill: I love that. I love that, right? And that’s the thought, so if you kind of have that in your mind like, “Okay, I wonder what I’m going to take from this experience today.” That’s such an open way to show up for your run. Instead of like, “I just got to get through this three miles. I just want to disconnect from my body.”

It’s a great way to actually tune into your body and tune into the thinking that you might not normally be paying attention to, and tune into your environment.

Lisa: Exactly.

Jill: Just with that openness of like, “I wonder what today’s run is going to bring me.” I absolutely love that. I’m going to start like asking myself that question before every run. I love that.

Lisa: Some days it’s really small things. It doesn’t have to be this overwhelmingly Zen experience every single time you head out the door. But if you head out of the door looking for something, you will find something every single time.

Jill: Yeah, like for me sometimes it’s like I’ll have like brilliant ideas. And other times it’s just seeing the little 70 year old dude in my neighborhood that goes out running in a members only jacket and khaki Dockers that is faster than me every single time. Like I love this dude, I love him. Every time I see him, I’m like, “I’m going to catch you one of these days.”

Lisa: I am usually a very early morning runner. And in the winter and spring that usually means darkness, at least at first. And there is a man who rides his bicycle. And his bike is all decked out with LED lights, and he has a boombox. It’s not super loud, but he has a boombox strapped to his bicycle handles, he’s listening to some music. And it is so fun to watch him ride by. It’s like, “You go dude, you enjoy that.”

Jill: Yeah, I love this. And so, yeah, sometimes it’s just those little things that make your day, that absolutely make your day. And sometimes it’s just like, “Hey, I did my 10 minutes today. That’s it. Like that’s what I’m taking away from that, I did 10 minutes. Yay me.”  Exactly, I love that. I love that.

Well, Lisa, thank you so much for sharing of yourself today. I think this was probably a pretty powerful episode for some folks that are listening who might be injured or who may have had the same types of thoughts that you’ve had in the past. And I love how you’ve kind of shared your evolution of how you think about running.

So how can people follow you and follow your journey?

Lisa: I am on Instagram @mrsrussell1019. That’s the primary place.

Jill: Okay.

Lisa: I am on TikTok too, but I don’t post much there.

Jill: I’m still trying to understand TikTok, it’s very fun to watch.

Lisa: Yeah, I have young adult children and of course at some point in time they were younger. And I feel like I just chased platform after platform on social media in order to keep up with them and make sure they weren’t getting into too much trouble. I can’t keep up anymore. So yeah, Instagram is the primary place.

Jill: Okay, so we’ll have a link to your Instagram in the show notes for this episode. And then, of course, you guys listening, the Rebel Runner Roadmap is going to be open very soon. I think it opens on August 30. And so if you join the Rebel Runner Roadmap you can actually connect directly with Lisa in that group.

Lisa: You should absolutely join the Rebel Runner Roadmap.

Jill: I know they should, they really should. But definitely follow Lisa on Instagram because she posts lots of fun stuff there. And yeah, so thank you again for joining me today. It’s been delightful.

Lisa: Thank you for having me.

Jill: Yeah, all right.

Oh, and one last thing. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, you have to check out the Rebel Runner Roadmap. It’s a 30 day online program that will teach you exactly how to start running, stick with it, and become the runner you’ve always wanted to be. Head on over to rebelrunnerroadmap.com to join. I’d love to be a part of your journey.