Ep #287: Your Body Is Not the Problem, You Just Need the Right Bra with Renelle Braaten

Welcome to The Not Your Average Runner Podcast. If you’ve never felt athletic but you still dream about becoming a runner, you are in the right place. I’m Jill Angie, your fat running coach. I help fat women over 40 to start running, feel confident, and change their lives. I have worked with thousands of women to help them achieve their running goals, and now I want to help you.

Jill: Hey runners, so I have a very, very, very special guest this week on the podcast. Her name is Renelle Braaten, and she is the founder of the Enell Sports bra company. And she’s an amazing human being. She’s funny as hell, she’s passionate about big boobs, and she started this company many, many years ago. I’m going to let her tell you the whole story about this. But I am so excited to have you on the show. So thank you for joining me.

Renelle: Thank you for having me.

Jill: It’s been a while. I think we first connected, gosh, it’s been almost ten years, I feel like.

Renelle: Oh my God. Has it been that long?

Jill: It has been that long because I was still married to my first husband. So it’s been a while.

Renelle: Oh my God.

Jill: I remember exactly where I was when we had our first conversation on the phone. And yeah, it was definitely at least 2015. It’s been a while. But I’ve wanted to have you on the show for ages because you have such an amazing story, and I think people need to know more about bras and like talk more about bras and boobs and like supporting them.

So I hope that’s what we’re going to do today. But what I’d love to do is have you start by just telling everybody about yourself and how you came to start this absolutely amazing company.

And actually, before we do that, I need everybody to know that running changed for me when I found the Enell bra. And I saw it in an old Oprah magazine way back when she ran the Marine Corps Marathon, and she talked about how she found this bra called an Enell. And, you know, Oprah’s got some big boobs. And I was like, wow, that’s a thing? Because I had been unsuccessful in finding a sports bra before that would allow me to comfortably run.

And I immediately got one. And I put one on, and I was like, what? What is this magic? It was amazing. Amazingly, I was able to run without any discomfort and just immediately. So I bought several more. I have literally every color that you’ve ever produced. I’m such a huge fan. But I just want, like, that’s how I found Enell. It was thanks to Oprah. You were being featured in the Oprah magazine. And the rest is history. So I’m going to stop talking now and let you tell your story.

Renelle: I was going to say, when do I get to talk?

Jill: I’m a little bit of a chatterbox. I own it. So tell us everything. Tell us everything.

Renelle: I’ve got to tell you, the reason I love you so much is because you have so many Enell bras.

Jill: I do. I mean, I’ve got to have at least 20 of them, at least. I should get them all out and count them, and take a picture of all the colors. They’re so pretty.

Renelle: Yeah, we’ve had fun doing the different colors and things like that. So you want me to just kind of start with how I ended up doing this?

Jill: Yeah. Yeah, tell us how you ended up owning a bra company.

Renelle: Okay. Well, first of all, I’m a full-blooded Norwegian. And I’m stubborn and not really bright. So I thought I could start a company. Start a bra company is what happened. I’m double D cup, and I played volleyball, and I was getting called in the net all the time. And I had played a little racquetball and some volleyball and things like that, and I just could not find a sports bra that worked for me.

Plenty of sports bras out there, but nothing that would hold me like I wanted to be held. So, oh God, we’re going to get into a different subject there. Okay, never mind, I’ll keep going. So I went to my mother first, and I said, “Mom, we have to make a sports bra that will work for me.” And so that’s kind of how it started. And I still have that first sports bra that my mother and I made together, except I can’t find it. I stuck it somewhere, and I can’t remember where it is.

But it is hilarious. It is from her sewing kit, and it’s just pieces that don’t even match. But I wore it for like two years. It worked great. Then I started talking with some of my friends, and they thought, well, you should market this. And I said, well, I’m in the middle of Montana. How am I going to do that? And I kept thinking about it and thinking about it. And I thought I could not be the only one with this problem. I can’t be.

And think about all the young girls in school that have larger breasts, and they just don’t even go out for sports because they don’t have anything that’ll work for them. So I kept talking to myself like, I don’t know, I think maybe you should look into this. And so that’s kind of how it all started.

So I contacted a person that I knew who worked for a different company, and she did a lot of pattern-making and things like that. And so I went to her because I don’t know that much about making patterns and all that kind of stuff. I just know what works. And, of course, I couldn’t sew up what my mom and I had put together and try to sell those. Oh my God, nobody would ever want that. And so we had to make it as pretty as possible, which is actually like fourth or fifth on my list as far as what I want in the bra.

Number one is I want it to work. Number two, I want it to be comfortable. Number three, I want it to be high quality. And then as pretty as possible, but I’m not going to give up any of that other stuff in order to get that.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: And I think women who are serious about what they’re out doing for their activities are less concerned about how pretty the bra is. I mean, you want something that’s going to work for you, you’re working out. So anyway.

Jill: Yeah, 100%. And actually, one of the things I love about the Enell bra is that it provides enough coverage that I can wear it without a shirt and not look like I’m just wearing my underwear.

Renelle: Right.

Jill: So anyway, sorry to interrupt, but I think the design is great.

Renelle: Yeah, good. The comfort is probably the biggest thing too. In fact, because we started out with the sports bra. And we did that for I don’t know how many years. And then what I really wanted deep down, and I always have all my life is a comfortable everyday bra. The sports bra that I designed that’s not for everyday wear. Although some women do do that, depending on what they’re doing, I suppose.

So I wanted an everyday bra that was comfortable because I had a very, very hard time finding that also. And so when we did the Lite bra, that one was the one that, I mean, I live in that.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: That’s awesome.

Jill: Yeah, that one is super comfortable. I wear them a lot, too, just around. I have my full-on armor sports bra on right now under my running shirt. But yeah, when I finally get around to taking a shower today, I will 100% put on my Enell Lite just to be more comfortable for the rest of the day.

But I’ve been wearing this Enell sport, and, I mean, I know obviously, people can’t see, you can see through the video. But I’ve been wearing this Enell sport since I put it on at seven o’clock this morning and it is 3 pm. And I’m still pretty comfortable in it. So I got no problem wearing these all day too.

Renelle: Right. While you get used to them.

Jill: Yeah, yeah.

Renelle: If something happens where the cat knocked something off, and you got to run after it, you got your sports bra on, you’re in good shape.

Jill: Exactly. And it kind of feels like somebody else is supporting your chest for you. It’s like, oh, I don’t have to carry that thing around. Somebody else has got it for me. That’s what it feels like.

Renelle: That’s kind of how I felt playing volleyball. The ball would go out of the court, and somebody would have chased after it. And I would never go after it. I’m not running after that ball. I’ll be bouncing all over the place.

Jill: You’re like, I’ll give myself a black eye.

Renelle: Then I got my bra. When I got my sports bra, it was like, oh, I’ll get it. No problem. I kind of felt like a guy.

Jill: I love that. Right? Oh, that’s such a great way to put it. I feel like these bras give bigger-chested women a chance to feel what it’s like not to have a huge chest.

Renelle: Yes, that exactly.

Jill: That’s it exactly.

Renelle: Yeah.

Jill: So when –

Renelle: You have no problem  –

Jill: Go ahead.

Renelle: I’m just going to say you have no problem running or jumping or anything like that. And you’ll notice that with, what I noticed when I would get like a basketball player, for instance, to use one. And you’d watch her before she had a bra, and her elbows are usually down by her side, and doesn’t give full swing with their arms and stuff because she’s still trying to hold her breasts in place a little bit with their elbows.

And then all of a sudden, when you get her in this bra, it’s like she forgets she even has a chest. And her arm movement is better and everything. It’s amazing, really, once you get them tamed down. Or tied down, I should say.

Jill: Yeah. Tied down, I love that. I mean, it does really have that feel to it, though. And I think that’s, like, when I see women who are like, “Oh, I just wear two sports bras.” I’m like, no, no, no. You only need one. Just get the one that’s going to keep everything locked in place.

There is a video that you guys had on your website. I remember seeing it years ago, and maybe it’s on YouTube, of a woman riding a horse. And it’s like before and after putting on an Enell.

Renelle: Yeah.

Jill: Am I imagining that, or did I actually see it?

Renelle: I don’t remember that one. Of course, I’m old. So it’s very hard for me to remember anything anymore.

Jill: You’ve been hit in the face one too many times with your own boobs, right, until you had the Enell. But I remember seeing that and thinking like, wow, that bra works really well. Because obviously, when you’re on a horse, you’re bouncing up and down. And like her chest was like very well under control.

Renelle: Yeah.

Jill: So, what year did you start the company? And can we talk about how you took your name and turned it into the name of the company? Like how did you come up with that idea? I think that’s so fun.

Renelle: Well, actually, the marketing, we hired a little marketing firm right here in Montana to help us out because we were, like I said, totally clueless about what we were doing.

And actually, to back up a little bit, I really didn’t plan to start a company. I went ahead and did the patent and everything, got a patent on it, and all that. And my real plan was, was to go to an actual bra company and sell them the rights to my patent so that we could get this bra made. Because, like I said, I’m in the middle of Montana. We don’t have manufacturing plants here, you know?

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: And so I wanted to take it to one of the bra companies. And I contacted several, sent them letters and told them about my product and asked them if they were interested and all that kind of stuff. And what I was faced with was a guy that I was chatting with about all of this. He said, “Well, what you’re getting is the NIH theory.” And I said, “Well, what is NIH theory?” And he said not invented here.

So if it’s not invented in there, you know, they’re selling what they’ve got. They don’t need anybody else’s ideas. Yeah, that’s a great idea. Good luck with it, you know, is normally what I would get as an answer to my letters. And so, like I said, I’m a stubborn Norwegian. So it was, okay. Well, I’ll just do it myself then and show you that there are women out here that need this.

So that’s what I ended up doing, just started from scratch and started word of mouth and trying to get it going that way. I had home sewers that were sewing the bras for the first couple of years. And then, when it started taking off, then we had to find an actual manufacturer, which wasn’t easy either.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: When I started this, I thought, well, how hard can this be? Sew up a bra and sell it. Done. Done deal. Well, no. No. There’s a lot more to it than that.

Jill: Yeah. And it’s fascinating to me that you’re bringing this amazing invention to other companies and basically saying, hey, you can make this. You just give me some kickbacks. And they’re like, no, no.

I feel like Nike is probably kicking themselves right now because I’ve tried. I swear I’ve tried every single bra out there for my size. And I’ve never found another one that works as well as Enell. And everybody’s like, “Oh, this is the bra for big-breasted women.” I’m like, “No, it’s not. Don’t be silly.”

Renelle: You are like my favorite person right now, Jill.

Jill: I’m an evangelist, for sure. But that’s the only time you’re ever going to hear me call myself an evangelist, that’s for sure.

Okay, so when did you start the company? Because it’s been around for quite a while.

Renelle: Yeah, we started, I think, it was about 93, something like that.

Jill: Oh wow.

Renelle: Yeah. And like I said, for the first couple of years we just had, we had one gal that would cut the pattern pieces out. And then other gals would pick up the bin and take them home and sew them and bring them back, and we’d sell them.

Jill: I just love this so much. Oh my gosh.

Renelle: Yeah, it was crazy. And my husband is an accountant. For him, you know, he’s pretty staunch about what you should be doing in a business and all that kind of stuff. So I was pretty shocked that he went along with this for a while.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: But it started to take off a little bit here and there, and we just went with the flow.

Jill: I love that. And how many bras do you think you’ve made since, like, I mean, it’s been, is it, 30? It’s been 30 years. Yeah.

Renelle: Oh my God. I’ll have to ask Wayne. He’s the accountant. I wouldn’t have a clue.

Jill: I mean because it’s got hundreds of thousands of boobs that you have supported.

Renelle: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Jill: Oh my gosh. That’s amazing.

Renelle: And like I said, when I started this, I kept telling myself, I bet I’ve told myself a million times, “I can’t be the only one. I cannot be the only one that needs this.”

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: And they’re not being serviced. I mean, they’re overlooked.

Jill: Yep.

Renelle: So we need to fix that.

Jill: Yeah. I think that’s one of the things that drew me to your company, is feeling like, oh, this is a company that understands me and my particular needs. And, I mean, it’s the same kind of approach that I take with my coaching, right? It’s like these are people that are not being served properly by the fitness industry. And I know because I was that person. And so, how can I help?

Renelle: Exactly.

Jill: And that’s exactly what you’ve done with Enell. It’s like, “Okay, I can’t be the only one,” I think is such a powerful statement because you created your own community of people by saying to yourself, “I can’t be the only person with this problem.” Because what, 8 billion people on the planet, 4 billion of them are women. Surely, there’s got to be at least one other woman who is struggling to support her boobs during athletics.

Renelle: Exactly.

Jill: So I love that as a driving force, you know? That’s so cool.

Renelle: We’re pretty much in the same boat, Jill.

Jill: Yeah, exactly.

Renelle: The same thing.

Jill: Exactly. So what has it been like over the years? Because you’ve probably seen a lot of success stories of women who were like, you know, playing basketball and like, oh, it was really hard for me to play basketball before. And now that it feels like I don’t have a chest, suddenly, I can make dunk shots, or I can spike the ball, or I can run after the ball if I’m playing volleyball.

You must have seen a lot of women whose lives have literally been changed because of this bra.

Renelle: Yeah, definitely. And one of the things that really kept me going, because, I mean, there were some tough times there trying to figure out different things. I mean, I won’t go into everything, but, like I said, it’s not make a bra and sell it like I wish it was.

Jill: Exactly.

Renelle: But it’s amazing the amount of testimonials that I would get. And about the time I was thinking, “Oh my God, I don’t think I can do this. Too much is going on,” and then I’d get a testimonial. And it’s like, oh shit, that’s right. That’s why I’m doing this.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: And so it was like that’s really what kept me going. And it also made me feel like crap because I thought, oh my God, I haven’t written any testimonials to companies about their products that I love.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: I thought, oh God, aren’t I an asshole?

Jill: You’re like, they need to know. They all need to know.

Renelle: Yeah, and if those women would, I mean, if they ever realized what that did for me because it did, it just kept me going.

Jill: Yeah. Yeah, it reminds you why you’re doing the thing you’re doing.

Renelle: Exactly.

Jill: And I think, you know, in any endeavor, right? Like when you’re a runner, and you have those days where you’re just struggling, and sometimes there’s a lot of those days. And then you have like one good run, and you’re like, “Oh yeah, this is why I do it.”

Or you see somebody else out on, you know, they’re out running on the same trail as you, and they look like they’re struggling, and you’re like, “Hey, you’re doing a great job.” And you can see that really helped them. You’re like, “This is why I do this, right? Because I want other people to feel as good as I feel.”

But what would you say have been, you know, you’re trying to sell a bra for women who have larger chests than average. And do you get people who are just like, “Listen, I’m too fat to exercise. My boobs are too big to exercise. It doesn’t matter what bra.” Do you ever get people who think that they are the problem? And it’s not just like, oh, you don’t have the right bra?

Renelle: Oh yeah, absolutely. That’s the toughest part, is educating women that there’s actually something there that’s going to work for them. And when I really would see that would be because we don’t really have a storefront or anything. You know, we’re over the internet and whatnot. But when we would go to a run or something or a trade show of some kind, we would always put up a try-on booth in there because they don’t get it unless they try it on.

Jill: Yeah, yeah.

Renelle: And that was the look that, I mean, you get a woman in there and get her fitted and get the bra on her and then tell her to jump up and down a little bit. And it’s like the look on her face was like, oh my God.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: Where did they go?

Jill: Yeah. I totally get that because that was how I felt the first time I put it on. I was like, wait, what just happened?

Renelle: Yeah, I know. I think of that every time I put it on now.

Jill: Yeah. But I think it’s so interesting that we are conditioned to believe that our bodies are the problem, right?

Renelle: Yeah.

Jill: Like you’re too fat, your boobs are too big. If you would just lose weight, life would be easier. We’re just, especially as women, we’re just conditioned to think that the problem is not that we don’t have the right tools. The problem is that our bodies are wrong. And I feel like Enell is on a mission to help people recognize, like, no, you just need this tool, that’s all. Your body is awesome. Most people like being boobies until they’re actually trying to run around with them.

Renelle: Right.

Jill: Most men appreciate them, but then they don’t have to carry them around. I don’t know where I was going with that. But I do think that’s what it is, right? It’s like we’re taught to believe that our bodies are the problem. And Enell is like, nope, here I am. It’s not your body. You just need the right tool. Here you go.

And then here’s the other thing I love is like I’ve bought some pretty expensive sports bras that didn’t work. And I feel like the value that I’ve gotten out of every Enell bra that I’ve purchased like I still have every bra. None of them have worn out, no matter how many times I put them in the washer. And I do put them in the dryer. I know you’re not supposed to do that.

Renelle: Jill!

Jill: I know, but they just like, I mean, and they’ve been washed and dried a million times. And they’re all still like in perfect shape. So these things are durable too. Yeah, I know.

Renelle: I know, that’s what my accountant husband told me. Our biggest problem is they last too long.

Jill: Yeah, they do. They really last a long time.

Renelle: But I love it.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: I love that they last long.

Jill: Yeah, it’s a great investment. It’s like I think they’re a better investment than like running shoes. You get six months out of a pair of running shoes, and you’ve got to toss them and buy a new pair. They don’t last like an Enell does. And I don’t even put them in the dryer, and yet they still keep wearing out.

Like I feel like the elastic in the Enells does not wear out. Because I mean, that’s the thing. Obviously, that would give the quickest, and it just doesn’t.

Renelle: Yeah, the band. Yeah, it holds up pretty well.

Jill: Yeah. I love that your husband is like, “No, you need to make bras that wear out faster.”

Renelle: Yeah.

Jill: It’s like we need to sell more. That’s why it’s so great that you keep coming up with new colors and designs and stuff. Because, yeah, that’s super fun.

Renelle: See, it’s a good thing I don’t listen to my husband most of the time.

Jill: I know, right? Well, and I think like when you buy a bra, and you know, hey, I’m going to have this bra for several years, you’re much more likely to invest than if you’re buying shit from Old Navy and you’re like, well, it’s probably going to fall apart in three months, right? Then you end up spending more over time than if you just invested in the right tool in the beginning.

But let’s kind of talk about what should people be looking for in a sports bra. Break down the structure of a bra, and like what are the features?

Renelle: Well, the one thing that I always said about sports bras, now before I made my own, I would try to fix other sports bras. Like I’d have a sports bra, I mean, if you can stretch it enough to pull it over your head, it’s not going to do anything but stretch when it gets there. So it’s not going to hold you.

And so, I would take non-stretch fabric and sew it to the strap of a different bra and try to get that to work. And it was, you know, it would help a little, but it just wasn’t doing what it needed to do. And so we, like I said, if it’s too stretchy, it’s not going to do anything. You know, that’s why we have, what do we have, eight sizes?

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: So we can fit as many women as possible. And you need to take some measurements to make sure you get the right size. And even that sometimes might vary a little. I mean, I wear two different sizes depending on what I’m doing.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: If it’s not real high impact, although I don’t do much of that anymore because I’m too old.

Jill: Never too old.

Renelle: But I would wear a real tight one when I’m doing something like that.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: But then, if I’m doing less activity, then I’ll go up a size. And it still fits me.

Jill: So I’m hearing that minimal stretch is what helps with the high impact.

Renelle: Yeah.

Jill: Because I’ve noticed that with my Enells, like I’m tugging on the like, the straps don’t have any stretch, the body, the only stretch is really around the ribcage. And that’s not super stretchy. It’s just enough to kind of like get it on.

Renelle: There’s a little stretch in them, for sure.

Jill: is there really?

Renelle: Yeah, but it’s not so much the strap because the strap needs to be pretty stable because of the pull of the larger breasts. If you’re doing something, you’ve got to have stability up above you.

Jill: Yes.

Renelle: But there’s stretch in other places, but less in some places. So it took us a while to get the design completely where it needed to be and whatnot. And that’s the reason for the hook and eye up front. You would never be able to pull that over your head. You’ve got to tuck and hook.

Jill: Yeah. Right, right.

Renelle: When you put it on, and I’m sure you know this, you hook the two bottom ones. And then you get in there and manhandle those boobs up into the bra where they’re supposed to be. And then you hook the rest of it up. And then you’re set to go. Make sure the back is pulled down good.

Jill: Yeah. It’s like, really, when you look at the bra before you put it on, you’re like, “I do not know how I’m going to fit into this.” And then, somehow, it’s way easier than it looks. And it’s like once you get that bottom hook hooked, the bottom two hooks, then yeah, there’s a little manhandling for sure. But after that, it’s pretty easy.

And because it’s a front close, I think that to me is very – I hate those back close bras. Whoever invented that was obviously not a woman.

Renelle: Yeah, well, you would never be able to put hooks in the back of this one. You wouldn’t be able to reach back there.

Jill: No.

Renelle: And besides that, I wanted a nice flat back and full back, so you don’t have bulges all over.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: And you’ve got that extra back support back there because you’re going to need it with the larger breasts.

Jill: Yeah, and that’s another thing, too, is I feel like I’m less prone to backaches when I’m doing stuff, like if I’m on the bike or whatever, because it’s very supportive of my back. It like helps me kind of maintain better posture when I’m running and doing stuff.

Renelle: Yeah, it does.

Jill: Yeah, it’s a good bra. Good design, well done. Well done.

Renelle: I’m going to hire you, Jill.

Jill: I know, right? You just put me on your marketing staff.

Renelle: Yeah.

Jill: Okay, so we talked about why Enells are so awesome and kind of like what to look for. And so whether you’re going to buy an Enell or another bra, the more stretch, the more bounce.

Renelle: Well, that’s how I feel.

Jill: Yeah. Too much stretch is not; stretch is good in your jeans and not so good in your bra.

Renelle: Yeah, there you go.

Jill: This is what we want, right? Stretchy pants, no stretchy bras. And you make two kinds, right? There is the Enell Sport, which is my personal favorite. And here’s the thing that I love about the Enell Sport and maybe it’s just because my boobs are so big. Like, I still have cleavage. I still have cleavage with this bra, so I don’t feel like I’m wearing it like it doesn’t come up to my neck. There’s still a little peekaboo cleavage happening. But it’s extremely supportive.

And then there’s the Enell Lite, which is –

Renelle: Yes, which is my personal favorite.

Jill: It’s your personal favorite. I love it.

Renelle: It’s the only bra to wear every day if you got boobs, I’m telling you.

Jill: Yeah, it’s so comfy. Especially, okay, so this is a thing that now that we live in the city and we get GrubHub a lot, and I’m a pajama person in the evening. And so I’ll be in my pajamas, and then I’ll realize, like, oh crap, now I have to go down and answer the door when GrubHub stops by. And so I’ll be like, I’ll just go put on my Enell Lite bra because it doesn’t feel like I’m wearing a bra, but I’m not terrifying the delivery guy. Right?

Renelle: Exactly.

Jill: It’s not like I don’t open the door, and he’s like, “Oh my goodness, what is happening?” Right? Like, everything is sort of contained. So I love it because I can wear it under pajamas and not feel like I’m all buttoned up in something.

Renelle: Yeah. And it’s actually still a sports bra, but it’s for, you know, like yoga and Pilates and things like that. Lower impact type stuff.

Jill: It keeps them gently contained.

Renelle: Yeah, but it’s perfect for every day, too.

Jill: But it also fits, too. And I think that’s the thing, like whether you’re buying a low-impact bra or a high-impact bra, it’s still hard to get something that fits a double D, a Triple D, a G, an H, or whatever.

Renelle: Right.

Jill: And the other thing, I can’t believe I forgot to mention this. The other thing that I think is so, so amazing about Enell is how size inclusive you are. Because your size eight, and darn it, I had the sizing chart in front of me, and I left it someplace else. But if memory serves, your size eight fits a ribcage of like 52 inches, maybe. Right? It’s like it’s probably like a 3 or a 4X.

Renelle: I don’t have a size chart either.

Jill: It’s very, very size-inclusive.

Renelle: Yes.

Jill: Because normally if you go to Champion, or even some of the bras, like there’s a couple of bras out there whose names I will not mention, but they say, “Oh, we’re size inclusive.” But then you go there, and it’s like, well, if you want anything above a 42, you’re kind of out of luck.

Renelle: Right.

Jill: And I’m like, that’s not size inclusive. I know a lot of people who wear a size 44 or 46. So Enell goes above and beyond, which I deeply, deeply appreciate.

Renelle: Well, when I started this business, I wanted it to be for every woman. Not just a few that you think are actually out there working out or something, you know?

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: How are larger women going to work out if they don’t have anything?

Jill: Exactly.

Renelle: So I wanted to make sure that they had something for them.

Jill: Yeah. Yeah, and that representation is really important. That’s like one of the things I’ve been; it’s kind of been a little bee in my bonnet for the past couple of years. And every once in a while, I get all riled up, and I post on social media.

But I get people messaging me on Instagram all the time, and they’re like, we would love you to represent our brand. It’s size-inclusive, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We think this is a great fit. And then I go, and I’m like, come on. Like you go up to a size 18, you’re not size inclusive.

And it’s so frustrating because I feel like the whole body positivity movement, it’s being mishandled or misused, like that terminology, that inclusivity. Like until you are really somebody who like needs a product in that size, you can’t really understand, well I guess you can understand, but you know what I mean.

Renelle: That’s true.

Jill: That’s it like these folks are like, oh, we’re size inclusive. I’m like, no, show me the 4X, show me the 5X. Show me that selection, and then we can talk. It’s super frustrating. And I think one of the things I love about Enell is you’ve had those sizes since, you know, well, for at least ten years, right? But I think it will probably last longer.

Renelle: Since the beginning.

Jill: It’s just been ten years since I came along.

Renelle: Yeah, we made that decision right up front.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: And the one thing that sometimes happens, though, with the company is we get pegged as being, you know, only for larger women.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: Well, we’re not exactly. We’re for all women because there are a lot of small women out there who have large breasts, and they have a hard time finding stuff.

Jill: Because you go down to like a double zero, I think.

Renelle: Yeah, and that’s pretty small.

Jill: Which I have one of every size in my closet for when I go to events, and people want to try them on. And the size double zero is teeny tiny, but it still has big boobs.

Renelle: Oh yeah, that barely fits around my thigh.

Jill: I probably would have the same issue. Yeah, so, and I think like that really is inclusivity, is like, hey, we fit all sizes, right? We don’t leave anybody out.

Renelle: Right.

Jill: But I think the one thing to be notable here is you don’t do like A cups, right?

Renelle: Yeah, I was going to say we do leave the AB cups out.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: So it’s mostly C cup and up.

Jill: Okay. But I think those folks are well served by everybody else in the fitness industry.

Renelle: Oh yeah, there’s tons of stuff out there for them.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: Yeah. We do have the racerback too.

Jill: Oh yeah, thank you. I was going to say there’s another kind.

Renelle: That’s the last one that we, you know because we had women that were wanting a racerback style. And I really struggled with that one personally because I hate racerback.

Jill: Interesting.

Renelle: So I couldn’t even test the bra.

Jill: Why do you hate the racerback?

Renelle: Because I don’t like it up on my shoulders. I don’t know. That kind of bugs me. And I like the full back better.

Jill: Yeah, you’re right because the straps are narrower or closer to the neck, I guess.

Renelle: Yes.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: And that’s always, that has never been my style. But there are a lot of women that love that.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: So we had some of the other ones testing that one.

Jill: I love it. I was one of your testers for that. I actually really liked the look of it. But I’m kind of the same as you. I like my bra straps to be kind of farther out on my shoulders.

Renelle: I think you just get used to that, and it’s hard to change.

Jill: Yeah. Yeah, that was probably it. I’m so used to how the regular Enell feels that I put on the racerback, and I was like, “Wait, what? Where are the straps? My back is cold.”

Renelle: Well, and then the other thing that the racerback does, is it does take a little of the back support out. And so it isn’t quite as supportive as the sport. The sport is heavy-duty.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: And then racerback, kind of depending on the size of the breasts too. I mean, it would probably work better on a C cup than on a triple D or H, you know?

Jill: Yeah. And I think that’s a good thing to note, right, is like not necessarily the size of your body, but just the size of your breasts themselves, there’s going to be some things that work better and some things that don’t work as well.

But I wear the racerback. I’ll wear it if I’m on my spin bike or if I’m going for a walk or something like that. But yeah, for me, that’s not quite as supportive for high-impact activities. But for going for a walk, it’s great. And it’s cute. It’s cute.

Renelle: Yeah.

Jill: It’s so funny. We’ve basically just been talking about how awesome Enell bras are, which is what I wanted to talk about. But I feel like I’ve finally been given a chance to just like devote an entire episode to talking about how awesome Enells are.

Renelle: Oh, I love it. Just keep talking, Jill.

Jill: How do people figure out the right size? Like on your website, do you have instructions?

Renelle: Yeah.

Jill: Because you don’t order like, oh, I want a 42 G. That’s not how your sizing works.

Renelle: Right.

Jill: So, can you talk a little bit about that?

Renelle: Well, you know, we kind of tried doing it that way a little bit. But I think the biggest problem is there are very few women in the world that know their real bra size. And that isn’t necessarily their fault, either. Like every bra company, every bra runs differently, it seems. You can buy a 36 C in one bra and buy a 36 C in another bra, and it’s going to fit you differently.

Jill: Yep.

Renelle: And so there isn’t a real good standard to go by. And so we just resorted to having them get actual measurements. And then so we’d have them do around the ribcage and do it with a regular bra on, not a sports bra or anything. So you measure around the ribcage and then around the fullest part of the bust. And then you can go to our size chart and kind of see where you’re at there.

Jill: Yeah.

Renelle: And sometimes, if you’re falling into two different sizes, you’re almost better off to order both and then figure out which one feels the best, works best, and then you can just return the other one. Or if the other one is a little bigger, keep it and use it for less impact type stuff. There are different things you can do.

Jill: And you guys do free shipping, so it is easy to order more than one.

Renelle: Yeah.

Jill: Love that.

Renelle: Yeah, I think we’re doing free shipping right now.

Jill: Yeah. Okay, so there are instructions. And I think there’s a video on the website, too, the last I checked.

Renelle: Yeah, I think there’s a video there, too.

Jill: And so, I mean, if anybody has made it to the end of this episode and is like, “I need an Enell bra right now,” if they haven’t already gone out and tried to figure out how to get one, Enelll.com is your website right? E-N-E-L-L.com.

Renelle: Yes.

Jill: And we have a discount code for everybody that’s listening to the podcast. So if you want to try one out, now is the time.

Renelle: Oh, perfect.

Jill: Mara, your amazing Mara sent it to me. I hope I don’t just get her in trouble for giving me a discount code.

Renelle: That Mara, she thinks she’s the boss, apparently.

Jill: She thinks she’s the boss. Who does she think she is?

Renelle: Actually, she kind of is.

Jill: I love that. I love that. She’s amazing.

Renelle: Because I’ve got to tell you, I may not be the smartest person in the world to start a bra company. But I’m smart enough to hire people who are smarter than me who can do it.

Jill: There you go. Right? I think that’s the best way to do it, for sure. So she gave me a 15% off code for anybody who’s a podcast listener and wants to try out the Enell. So the code is N-Y-A-R 15. So it is N-Y-A-R-1-5. And I think if you put that in when you check out on the website, you get 15% off.

Renelle: Cool.

Jill: Yeah. So I really think that everybody needs to wear, not everybody, anybody who is a C cup or higher and finds that high impact activities are uncomfortable, or you’re like, I’m just looking for a lay around the house bra that doesn’t cut off my circulation, right? Go try the Enell Sport, or try the Enell Lite, or try the racerback. They are life-changing.

And I mean this from the bottom of my heart, you made it possible for running to feel comfortable for me. I was trying, I was doing the two sports bras, and I was like, none of them ever fit. I was spilling out everywhere. And, you know, they were the kind that you have to put them on over your head. And then I would have to ask for help to get out of the bra every single time.

And then I found Enell, and everything changed. And honestly, I’ve told this to people before. I don’t think I would have become a running coach. I don’t think I’d be doing any of the stuff that I’m doing right now if you hadn’t created that bra to solve that problem for me. It has had that big of an effect on my life. And so I will always tell everybody I know about Enells.

Renelle: Oh my God, does that mean I have a part of your company?

Jill: I feel like I owe you some kickbacks, right? I owe you a percentage because I really wouldn’t, I truly don’t think I would have been able to do this without the Enell bra. And so I want to thank you.

Renelle: You’re making me feel pretty darn good right now.

Jill: Well, that’s good. This is just one big testimonial.

Renelle: Yes, this is what testimonials do for you, you know?

Jill: Yeah, for sure.

Renelle: Because, to me, I knew I needed to make some money to live on the company. But that wasn’t even close to being the most important thing to me. I mean, it feels so good to be able to help other women.

Jill: Well, I thank you for getting past all of the difficulties of getting it started and all of, you know, I’m sure you had some, like, nervousness and some fear.

Renelle: Oh yeah, plenty of that.

Jill: Yeah, so I thank you for doing that, for being the person to put this out in the world to change so many lives because it does pay it forward. And then every life that you’ve changed, someone might see them and think, “Well, if she can do it, I can do it.” And that changes more lives. So it’s just like this huge ripple effect.

And so what you’ve done, what you’ve started is, like I always say, I want to leave the planet a little bit better than I found it. And I think you’ve done that immeasurably. So thank you.

Renelle: Well, thank you very much.

Jill: All right. Well, thanks for being on the podcast today. And everybody rush on over to the Enell.com website, grab a bra or two or three, use the code N-Y-A-R 15 to get 15% off, and you get free shipping over there as well. And then let us know how it went. You can write to the podcast, support@notyouraveragerunner.com, and let me know. Or you can go over to the Enell.com website and let them know.

Or you can check them out on Instagram. I think it’s Enell Sports Bras on Instagram. And there’s some good boob humor over there too. So if you like titty jokes, go to Instagram and follow Enell.

Renelle: We get a little carried away.

Jill: They do. It’s good. Well, actually, I was going to say I don’t know who does your social media, but I actually do know who does your social media, and she’s funny as hell.

Renelle: Oh yeah, she’s perfect.

Jill: Yeah, she’s so good. So, again, thank you so much for joining me today and for making a difference in the world.

Renelle: Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you for having me. Seriously, it’s great.

Jill: It’s been my pleasure.

Renelle: You’ve got me all riled up again now.

Jill: All right, let’s go. Let’s go do some more shit. Let’s go break stuff.

Renelle: All right, let’s do it.

Real quick, before you go, if you enjoyed this episode, you have got to check out Run Your Best Life. It’s my monthly coaching program where you will learn exactly how to start running, stick with it, and become the runner you have always wanted to be. Head on over to runyourbestlife.com to join. I would love to be a part of your journey.