Ep #24: The Teenage Body Image Issue Conundrum with Geri Gibbons

Welcome to The Not Your Average Runner Podcast. If you’re a woman who is midlife and plus sized and you want to start running but don’t know how, or if it’s even possible, you’re in the right place. Using proven strategies and real-life experience, certified running and life coach Jill Angie shares how you can learn to run in the body you have right now.

Hey rebels, you are listening to episode number 24 of The Not Your Average Runner Podcast. I’m your host, Jill Angie, and I have a huge treat for you today. I’m interviewing the one and only Geri Gibbons on talking to your teenage daughter about body image.

Now, for those of you who don’t know Geri, she is a kickass life coach and we actually trained at the same school. After 25 years as a corporate marketing executive, Geri left that career to become a strategy coach to help other smart, successful women achieve sustainable weight loss, career success, or better work-life balance.

Now, she’s also a life coach to an entire team of high school figure skaters, and she spends a lot of time coaching them on mindset. And that includes their thoughts about their bodies. Geri also has a teenage daughter herself, so she knows firsthand how to do it.

Alright now, before we get into the interview, I need to tell you that Geri is going to be teaching a private class on this very topic to my Run Your Best Life clients on June 24th, and I know that there’s a lot of you that listen to this podcast that have teen daughters or pre-teen daughters, and you are concerned about what messaging those girls are getting either from the media or from their friends, or even from you, even subtle messaging if you’re somebody who has thoughts about your body that you don’t necessarily want to pass on to your daughters.

So this class that Geri’s teaching is going to help everybody in my Run Your Best Life community learn how to do that, even more than you’re going to learn from this podcast. So it means you’re going to get to ask questions directly of Geri about how to talk to your daughters and learn additional techniques to work on your own body image issues so that you can model the behavior for your teens and preteens that you want to model.

Now, if you’re not in Run Your Best Life, I want you to know that we do stuff like this all the time. I train my clients not just for running but for life, okay? I invite the experts in to help them with all kinds of stuff. For example, a couple weeks back it was Dr. Kate Brown from episode 21, and she gave a private class to the group on body positivity and how it relates to running, and how you can feel like you fit into the running world and just kind of like, be really proud of yourself.

So that’s a class that we recently did. I just taught a special class myself on how to coach yourself through pre-race freakouts and next month, I’ve got somebody coming in to teach everyone in the group about stretching and really caring for your body as a runner.

And then after that, we’re going to have somebody in to talk about fueling your body for running and weight loss. And it’s not just about following a certain kind of diet. She’s going to work really hard with you guys on the mindset that you need to really always be choosing the best, high quality fuel for your body and then if weight loss is a choice that you want to make, then she’s going to talk to you about how you can incorporate that into your running lifestyle.

Now, all of these classes are recorded. So if you’re listening to the podcast – this particular podcast after the class happens, you can still join Run Your Best Life and get access to literally every class we’ve ever done. It’s all there waiting for you. So this is all in addition to the weekly live coaching calls that we do. And of course, there’s lots of other goodies for you in the group, there’s a Facebook group where everybody connects, it’s just – basically, Run Your Best Life is a group of awesome women just like you. We have fun, we get real, we run, we talk about running all the time, we talk about a lot of other stuff, make shit happen.

And you can join that tribe at www.runyourbestlife.com. That’s runyourbestlife.com. Just do it, you will not regret it. Okay, that being said, I am super excited to present this interview with Geri Gibbons.

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Jill: Well, hey there Not Your Average Runners, rebellious runners. I am super excited to introduce you to my friend and colleague, Geri Gibbons this week. She’s a life coach and she’s super amazing and we’re going to talk all about body image and teenage and preteen girls today. So welcome, Geri, I’m so happy to have you here.

Geri: I’m so happy to be here, thank you for having me.

Jill: This is going to be fun. There will be a lot of cursing too, so if you’re listening to this in your car and your kiddos are in the back, you may want to like, save this episode for a different day. Okay, so Geri, you are a life coach, I know we both trained at the same school, but we have very different populations of women that we work with. So can you tell us a little bit about what you do and who you work with?

Geri: Sure. So I’m a life strategy coach, that’s how I define myself, and I work with, you know, smart, successful women who are stuck in some way. And I help them manage their weight, primarily, most of my practice is weight loss coaching, but I also help people balance their lives and achieve career success. And you know, the reason I became a coach was because after years of weight loss programs and trying to figure out what was wrong with me, I finally found the answer, and what was wrong with me is that you know, my thinking was deeply flawed and negative. And when I turned that around, you know, everything turned around for me.

Jill: Isn’t that amazing how much like, we think all of the circumstances of our lives need to change? Like, we need to change our weight so we can be happy or we need to have a bigger house so we can be happy, or we need to like, run a faster half marathon so we can be happy and really like, we can just be happy and also managing our thoughts and like, do all those other things.

Geri: Oh my gosh, you’re talking to women who move continents to be happy. You know, I moved from London to Miami, sight unseen and then was miserable. I’m like, oh crap, I took myself with me. So yes.

Jill: I love that. It’s like, oh shit, I’m still the same person.

Geri: And then I moved to Boston and I was like, oh no, wait, it’s not any better. Oh crap.

Jill: So good, so good. Okay, so we’re here today to talk about – and the reason I invited you on here is I’ve actually been getting a lot of questions from my listeners about, you know, I have a teenage girl, daughter, or a preteen daughter, and she’s – you know, she’s struggling with body image and I want to be able to help her. So I was like, I know some people that deal with this really well. And so that’s kind of what we’re here to talk about today. So let’s see. I mean, tell us a little bit about your background and like, how you address this issue with your own daughters.

Geri: Well, I’ll tell you two things to start out with. First of all, I am the mother of a 15-year-old teenage daughter who has suffered through weight and body issues, and I’ll talk more about that as – with her permission as we go through the call. I also am the life coach for, this year, 20 teenagers who form the Madison Ice Diamonds. I’m based in Madison, Wisconsin, and that’s a synchronized skating team, and their coach brought me in last year to start working with them on mindset issues, which I was so excited to do because I think the sooner that we introduce thought work to kids, the happier they’re going to be and you know, the much more effective they’re going to be in their lives and in their choices.

Jill: I love that. So you’re basically teaching them how to kind of adjust their thinking when they’re still at an age where their thinking hasn’t been like, cemented.

Geri: Exactly, when they’re just starting to – you know, one of my favorite things to teach them is there is no bad day. And they all look at me like they kind of put their heads to one side and like, mama Gibbons, like, what do you mean? Like, the day is just the day bad is what you make it, and they literally – but you know, over time they’ve really – they have evolved to understand that they can change their thinking, the ones that I had certainly last year, and they have evolved to understand that what other people say about them isn’t necessarily – just because somebody says it doesn’t mean it’s true, and that they’re responsible for their own feelings. And those are huge, huge, huge macro issues that we work with adults on even today, you and I.

Jill: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that whole like, being responsible for your own feelings and what other people say can’t hurt you is a really powerful lesson.

Geri: Really powerful.

Jill: To learn. Okay, so to speak specifically about body image, I mean, I personally remember having major body issues from maybe about the age of 12 onwards. Like, when I was in the sixth grade, I used to spend hours trying to figure out like, how to sit at my desk without my little tummy roll showing. And I think part of that was realizing that the other girls – and let’s like, be honest, like, this was like, 1978, 1979, it was a long time ago. But part of it was realizing the other girls in my class was a lot skinnier, they had boys chasing them, and then part of it was my mom was – we talked about her weight, she was very obsessed with the fact that she was overweight by maybe 25 pounds. She used to post her calorie counts on the fridge every day, and it just sort of got into my head. The message that I received was that being overweight was something to be ashamed of. I mean, for Pete’s sake, I was probably 10 pounds heavier than the other girls at that time, which is like, it’s like nothing, right? But I felt like I was really, really huge and it sort of snowballed from there. And that was before social media, right? So what is it like now for girls and what is it like for parents of those girls? Like, tell me everything because the pain I was in, I can’t imagine what it must be like now.

Geri: Well, in some ways it’s not any different. And I want to take everybody back to sort of the innocent beginnings of body shame. So if you think about it, when you’re 11 or 12 years old, or whatever age you hit puberty, your body is really neutral. I mean, it’s still neutral, but your body is really neutral, and you don’t think about it. And you know, you’re off living your life as a young girl, and then puberty hits. And you know, you get your period and you get boobs and your body changes. And I know specifically for my daughter, she is a competitive figure skater. You know, as an athlete, the physics of her body changed, and so you know, her breasts were in her way and things happened, and you know, the way that she jumped change. And so all of that causes your body no longer to be neutral, like you’re super aware of it. And it’s uncomfortable for many of them because you know, people make comments, well-meaning sort of, or not so well-meaning comments. I remember my daughter’s father said to her, “Oh, you have boobs,” and she literally wanted to just die of mortification, right? I know, I know. So – and I think that discomfort and shame – you know, discomfort turns to shame because I think there’s an unquestioned belief that, you know, you start to think, oh no, there’s something wrong with me. And I know for my daughter, she just wanted to go back. She wanted to go back into her pre-puberty body because it was just uncomfortable to be, you know, with the changes. And sometimes I think when kids get to puberty, they put on a little bit of weight, people call it – you know, they call it puppy fat, which is just a horrible name, word. But they – you know, as their body is shifting, they may put on a little weight and it’s all completely normal but nobody really talks about the puberty process and how it’s all normal. So they get discomfort and their shame and then they think over time that starts to become the belief system that we all grapple with. So you know, you and me and others grapple with today. Like, we all remember when we were teenagers when it started and why. So I think there’s that piece, and then I think we turn to the social media piece. So they go looking for answers because I don’t think kids talk to – and I talk to the coaches on the synchronized team about this. They don’t talk to each other about body image or fat. They sort of – they may say something like, you know, my thighs are fat or whatever, but exactly what happens with kids is exactly what happens with us. Their friends say, oh no you’re not, don’t be ridiculous. So like, nobody validates it or maybe there might be one person validates it. So they may go looking on the internet. And I know for example, my daughter went looking for solutions, and I was a weight coach. So when I discovered that she’d been looking for solutions, she had reached 105 pounds at 5’5″ and she had discovered the pro-anorexia world.

Jill: Oh my gosh.

Geri: Right. So pro-anorexia means they think of anorexia as a choice, and they don’t understand the dangers of it. And I discovered she was wearing sweatshirts, there were lots of things going on and I didn’t really see what it was but I did catch it just in time. So, you know, there are messages out there about how kids can lose weight eating romaine lettuce with cinnamon and what not on it. There are things like the Cinderella challenge, which is all about losing weight so your thighs have some particular thigh gap. All of that stuff is out on social media. And you know, as a parent, it scares the living daylights out of me because it’s literally the trafficking of our children’s minds. You know, we talk about other kinds of trafficking but this is the trafficking of our kids’ minds. And food is one area in all of this changing world that they can control, right? You know, everything else is changing and your body is changing and friendships are changing and relationships between genders are starting to happen. You know, food is the one thing that they can start to control. So those are I think the beginnings of it, and I don’t think it’s so much that they talk with each other on social media like friend to friend, but I think they go looking for peer groups, and that’s where the pro-anorexia community is so dangerous.

Jill: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, how do you even know if your daughter or even your son, I guess, I’m sure this happens to boys as well. Like, how do you know if your child is leaning in that direction?

Geri: There were signals that I missed. When your child says they’re not hungry and you don’t really think that they’ve eaten, I was like, oh maybe she’s not hungry, maybe she needs a little time after practice. As someone who was overweight a lot of my adult life, and worried about weight when I was a kid, you know, I don’t want to feed somebody when they’re not hungry. So there’s a lot of not hungry, then there’s a lot of like, picking at food and around food. My daughter started to eat salad and I was like – she didn’t really like it but like, that was what she was eating instead of protein. So those were – and then she was wearing a lot of loose clothes like sweatshirts and things, but what really happened and how I discovered it is that you know, the universe helps you as a parent, I think, a lot of times with these things. So I discovered on her phone while she was out skating that – first of all, I thought she looked really thin. She was in her skating outfit and I just thought, that doesn’t look like her. And I kept asking if she was losing weight and she wouldn’t say so. So when we finally got to it, I looked through her phone and discovered that she had a blog on Tumblr devoted to pro-anorexia. And what they call #meanspo or #thinspo. And those things are – that’s when you want somebody to be mean to you so that you will stay on track, which of course is totally antithetical to everything that you and I teach.

Jill: Yeah, as if our inner mean girl isn’t mean enough, now we’re inviting the outside world…

Geri: We’re inviting the outside mean girl to come in and really just say, yeah, you’re right, you’re fat, don’t eat today or only eat 500 calories. And you know, they have challenges to spend five days just eating 500 calories and of course, these are bodies that need, you know, 2000 calories a day to fuel their brains, even if they’re not athletes, to fuel their brains to, you know, study in school and just to, you know, fuel their growth.

Jill: Yeah, and their bones are growing, their muscles are growing, like, everything is growing and changing and that takes a lot of metabolic energy.

Geri: Exactly. It was terrifying. As a parent, it was absolutely terrifying, and I was lucky that there were great resources in town because there’s a certain amount of work that I think we can do as parents, and I’ll talk about that in a minute, but I think they’re messages that they won’t take. The unwinding of this was not something that I could do as a parent because I could talk to her and tell – you know, I was blue in the face – there was no way on her worst day that my daughter ever had a weight problem. You know, she’s naturally thin. And I will say that today – so to fast forward from 105 pounds to, you know, we just went to the doctor because she was going to camp, and she’s recovered. And she’s, you know, solid 125 pounds of pure muscle and looks fabulous and esteems herself now.

Jill: I love that.

Geri: And that’s so…

Jill: So did she go into a treatment or did she…

Geri: She didn’t go into treatment, she didn’t need like, the full whole hog treatment, but she did see a therapist and she saw a nutritionist, and the nutritionist was very simple. Sort of said a meal is three things. Nutritionist didn’t get into calories or any of that stuff, and they didn’t let them weigh themselves, so I know that, you know, we took the scale out of the house because I weighed myself, right? So there were changes that we made. And eventually, she looked at her thinking.

Jill: Yeah, that’s where it’s all coming from.

Geri: That’s where it’s all coming from.

Jill: So I mean, that’s kind of one half of the coin is the child that it feels this intense pressure to look a certain way so she can fit in and she takes extreme measures to change her body. What do you say like – then there’s kind of the other side of the coin where you have the child that is maybe overweight but is honestly like, normal size or you know, turning towards being heavier or overweight and doesn’t necessarily take those extreme measures and then has to deal with that reality of not being the same size as everyone else, and what would you – as a parent, what do you do with that? Because then the child is – then you have a child who’s like, everybody else is skinnier than me, I feel terrible about myself because I’m fat, right? And I know – like, I have a lot of girlfriends who have, you know, maybe one of their daughters or children is kind of in that place, and they don’t know – because they’re struggling with their own body image, they don’t know how to model it, they don’t know how to talk to their child, like, they don’t want to fuck their kid up basically. They’re like this is a pivotal point. So how do you address that?

Geri: Well, I think there’s two issues there, so let me address the one first about parents modeling for teens. You can’t give away or model something that you don’t have or feel yourself.

Jill: So good. Yeah.

Geri: Right? You just can’t do it. You got to look at your own issues because those are the messages that you’re giving out even if you don’t say it out loud. It’s, you know, the diets that you’re on and off, it’s, you know, all of the behaviors that you have around food. Your kids are catching them. And so if you have an – so the second part of that question. If your child is overweight, if your teen is overweight and they’re starting to talk about wanting to lose weight, I would teach them evolution, not revolution, right? So it is not the time and unfortunately, so many people do – like, it’s the drastic diet. You know, I can remember in high school – and I laugh about it now – but I can remember in high school there was something called like the, the something or other medical weight loss plan and literally like, we would all beg our mothers to go and they would give you 500 calories a day and it was like, tuna fish and celery and whatever. You lost weight and then you went out and you, you know, went to McDonalds and you gained your weight back. So that’s what I don’t – if I could give anybody a message, that’s not what we want for our kids. We want them to just learn like, to make – whatever choices they’re making to adjust them just a little, right? Over time, like, what are they eating and how can they change that slightly. Maybe it’s you know, bag of potato chips goes to snack sized potato chips goes to baked potato chips goes to baked potato. Like, you know, over time. Because kids are so lucky, they rebound so quickly, their bodies are much – their bodies are like maximum efficiency as a teen.

Jill: Yeah, for sure. But so – alright, so my question is this then. Like, so I’m thinking about being a teenager and I really just want to change my body fast. So I know like, yeah, it’s all good to eat a little bit less or whatever, but what about like, the teenager that – like, she’s still living in that body for a while, while it’s getting smaller, right? So I think that’s one thing. So you’ve got the teen that’s – you know, she’s on board with evolution instead of revolution, she’s like, okay fine, but now I still have to deal with my own thoughts about my body until it shrinks. Or what do you do with a teen who’s like, doesn’t necessarily want to lose weight? Like, do you always guide your teen to lose weight if she’s overweight? Or do you say like, hey, you don’t have to lose weight. Because that’s what I teach to all of my clients who are mostly plus size. I’m like, your weight loss is a choice. You can choose it or not choose it, like, there’s no right or wrong answer. And like, what if you have a teen that’s like, I don’t really want to lose weight but I’m tired of, you know, feeling different and you know it’s her thoughts about it rather than the circumstance of her body.

Geri: So I think there’s also a beautiful thing happening in the world. You know, in addition to all the negative messages that you can find in social media, you can also find lots of body positive messages. And so you know, what I would say to a teen that doesn’t want to lose weight is rock your assets. Rock the – you know, love yourself, and rock your assets. Don’t hide under baggy sweatshirts. Like, find the clothes and wear the things that you love. Feel good in your skin then. If you don’t want to lose weight, then choose to feel good in the body that you have.

Jill: Right, because I think a lot of our teens – maybe it’s not even that they don’t want to lose weight, they feel like they can’t, right? They’re just like, this is my body, I really – they feel like they don’t have the power to change it and I mean, I think like, when we believe that our body is our body, that this is the body we’ve been given, like, how do you come to terms with that? So I know – you know, one of my friends asked me specifically – maybe I’ll just read the question that she asked. She said – this is my friend Karen, my running partner. She said there is so much pressure on girls to fit in, to wear the trendiest styles and look like everyone else, and if your daughter doesn’t fit a mold of what they should look like or what they think they should look like, what is the best way to talk to them to help them see that they’re beautiful the way they are because sometimes just hearing those words like over and over again is not always enough for them to believe it because of maybe other messaging that they’re getting.

Geri: Well, you’re right because there are so many different body types, and I think there’s still the idealized model body that’s out there, although I do think there are many other celebrities that model more body positivity and model a more full-figured body. So if you want to wear the trendy styles, you know, make it work for the body you have. Like, that might not be short shorts or whatever it is that they’re going to be comfortable in, there’s always a way to find a trend and wear it. Just like if you are north of 50, you’re not going to dress the way that a 20-year-old – you might.

Jill: I would.

Geri: That might be your choice, but like, you know, when I look at trends now in my 50-year-old self, I wear them differently, right? So you know, there’s a certain age appropriateness and there may be a certain body appropriateness that somebody decides like, I’m going to wear this shirt and I’m going to wear it with this instead of like – you may always wish. I certainly – there are stores that I look at, I’m like, god I would love to wear that. But you know, you got to dress for the body that you have.

Jill: Yeah, for sure.

Geri: Instead of dressing for the body that you want, dress for the body that you have and dress it as best you can, as well as you can.

Jill: So if you’re a teen girl and like, you’re doing that, you’re dressing the body you have, whatever that looks like, but you still are like, I don’t feel beautiful, I feel fat, I feel like – because we know, this is what a 15-year-old brain says.

Geri: This is what 15, 25, 35, 55, like, that doesn’t stop.

Jill: Yeah, and you say it’s like – you’re talking your teenage daughter and you know, she tells her friends she looks fat, my thighs look fat, and the friend says, oh no, you’re beautiful the way you are. Like, that’s not – just hearing those words isn’t always enough for them to believe it. So how do you work with a teen and does it start with the mom and helping the mom see herself differently?

Geri: Well, I think it does in parts start with the mom, and I work with plenty of moms on their body image because I do believe in order to – one of the things that you have to do to lose weight is to love yourself in the skin that you’re in. That was certainly my story. I always talk about – Susan Hyatt said to me, “Oh Geri, you’re going to have to learn to like yourself a whole lot more before you lose weight.” And I was sobbing. Sobbing.

Jill: Like no, I just want to lose the weight and then I’ll like myself.

Geri: And I didn’t know how to do it. But I think there were some basic steps to teach people to like – and one of them is dress like you care about yourself, and like, you know, and go about the world esteeming yourself, which is absolutely a choice. So when it comes to teens, it’s like, it’s really in many ways no different than it is anybody who’s older, older women or men. It’s really teaching them to – you know, it’s a choice. Like, loving your body is a choice. And beating up your body is – there’s no mileage in it because you can’t change from a negative place. You and I both know that. Like, self-hatred, self-flagellation, self-beating never helped anybody lose weight. Because all you are doing is you’re pushing against yourself.

Jill: Yeah, for sure.

Geri: Right? And so that’s what I say to teens when – we don’t have a ton to talk about this when I’m coaching the synchro team because we’re mostly talking about their overall negativity and you know, the way that they let others affect their mood and things like that. But I do teach them – and they’re all different body types. It’s a team of 20. So there are plus sized bodies – they’re a team of 20 and they range in age from like 18 to 11. So there are all different kinds of body types, all different stages of evolution, and they all go out in skating dresses, which are form fitting. And they have to learn to like, love the skin that they’re in, in order to change it. And what are the ways that you could love the skin that – and if you don’t love everything or anything, you got to start small. So you know, I’ve worked with a client where the only thing that she liked about herself was her nails. She loved her fingernails. You know, you start where you are. And then work with them like, is it possible that you could learn to like your body? You know, this is a body that carries you as a runner, you know, as an athlete. What does it do for you?

Jill: I love that.

Geri: I think there’s some really positive messages that can be in there, but again, I think that parents need to be doing this work themselves. You find a group of moms together, like my condo pool, and you know, they’ll be talking about keto and this – P.S. drinking wine. There’s nothing like a little keto in the morning and wine in the afternoon, right? Because that works. But you know, people talk about whatever the latest craze and the latest fad is, and I’ve seen everything from low carb, low fat, keto, and so many of my clients come to me with a mish mash of all of that stuff. And you know, I just ask them to back it up and eat real food and evolve it and meet themselves where they are because they all have diet fatigue and we don’t want our kids to have that. There’s anything that I wanted – when I discovered that my daughter was on her way to being fully anorexic, so she just hadn’t – “just had an eating disorder,” she wasn’t fully anorexic, but I think I cried for a week and a lot of those tears were around, oh my god, did she get this from me? You know, did she get it from me? And I was doing my own work, but there were many years that I wasn’t doing my work before that. So you know, did she catch it? And I’ve let myself off the hook slightly because I realize that it wasn’t just coming from me. You know, she had an overweight mother, but she also had a body that changed that was stopping her progressing in her sport so she got up in her head about that, right? So there were things, do your own work people.

Jill: Yeah, for sure. And like, it’s never really about the size of our bodies, it’s all about what we believe if we have a body that’s a certain size that we will feel.

Geri: Completely. And so two snippets of stories. The first time that I ran a 5K, I was, I want to say 230 pounds, and I honestly – and I trained for it, and my body carried me the whole way and I felt like it didn’t matter what weight I was. Like, I was just a badass who completed a 5K. And then what else could I do? And then I went and realized I could ski again. So just because I was heavier than I had ever been at that point, I had convinced myself that there were things I couldn’t do, but really there wasn’t much I couldn’t do. I could do planks, you know, there were lots of things that I could do. So all of that made me feel so much joy and that joy carried into the way I held myself, the way I was out in the world. Because you know, I was happy, and I started to lose weight because of that. You know, and I think that’s the same story of learning to love myself at my highest weight, which was 250 pounds. So I didn’t believe it was possible and I cried all through Susan Hyatt’s coaching, and then I look myself on adventures. I started doing the things that I had not allowed myself to do because I thought I needed to lose weight to do them. So don’t wait. Don’t wait to do that walk or run. I actually heard an amazing story just last week of a 400-pound woman who started doing 5Ks. She started them by walking first to the trashcan outside her house. And then a little bit further, and then a little bit further. My message to her was that’s the model you need to take to losing weight. Evolve it a little bit and a little bit and a little bit, and that’s what we want to talk to our teens about. I know that they want results right away, but you know, teens will get results faster than adults. Like, little changes will have big impact on them, and movement is really easy for them at that age. So if you’re an overweight teen and you even were to start to move your body, the results will be there.

Jill: So now what if you’re a mom though, and you’re like, I don’t want to lead my teen to lose weight, right? Because I think that’s one thing that, again, I don’t have kids of my own, but I know when I grew up, my mom was always pushing the you need to lose weight, you need to lose weight.

Geri: Mine too. “How’s your weight, Geri?” My mother used to say to me. “How’s your weight?” I’m like, it’s gone on holiday. My weight was like this person.

Jill: Like, one of the things that I teach to my runners is that you don’t have to lose weight to be a runner. You don’t ever have to lose weight, that’s not a requirement in this life to be skinny. I want you to love your body the way it is now, and then if you decide to lose weight, awesome. If you decide not to, awesome. And like, how do you get that message across to kids? Like, how do you teach them like, you don’t have to lose weight to be happy with yourself. Like, you can just…

Geri: One of the things to do is to ask the kid, you know, what do you think that losing weight would do for you? I think it’s that conversation. You know, when you like – a lot of people say I want to lose 30 pounds. And the question is – they come to me, they say, “I want to lose 30 pounds.” I’m like, why? What is it that you want in your life that the 30 pounds…

Jill: It’s such a great question.

Geri: It’s such a great question. Like, the 30 pounds is going to do for you. Because it’s not really 30 pounds. It’s the life they think they’re going to have when they lose 30 pounds, or 50 pounds, or 100 pounds. And so many people can have that life now. You know, my client Christie…

Jill: How do you help her do that?

Geri: Pardon?

Jill: How do you help her have that life now without…

Geri: You start doing those things. So you know, be more social, or date. One of my clients came to me and she lost 100 pounds, she was stuck. And she said I keep wanting to lose weight because I want to date and she started to date at the weight that she was because she was so afraid. This is part of this unravel – I think a lot of times, we use our weight as an excuse for fear. Like, and it’s sort of this odd conundrum. So she was afraid to date and so making it like, I’ll date when I’m thinner, stopped her from dating. Because – and so she’s kind of own-goaled herself like it’s much easier to believe that you’re not having the life you want instead of because you are trying something that matters maybe even more, like looking for love or trying to achieve a particular goal. It’s really easy to make it about your weight because you think that that’s something you can control. Whereas somebody – whether somebody loves you or not or whether you get the promotion or whatever that is that you feel are like outside your control. So weight is real, it’s a real issue, but I think people also use it as a stop for the life that they really want to be living. So I’m like, go and do it. And it’s terrifying for a lot of them. It’s this huge fear and you know, your lower brain is saying you’re going to die if you date. Like, and I’ve dated – dating as a plus size woman like, a mind mess for me. And I think that’s, you know, that’s part of what we work through.

Jill: Yeah, for sure. And I think like, because women believe that if I’m plus size and I start dating, I’m opening myself up to being judged for my size.

Geri: But we’ve already judged ourselves, like, it really doesn’t matter because like, we’re already like – we’ve already like, gotten the jury together, we’ve already passed the sentence, and we’re already serving, like, the hard time.

Jill: Like, we’re just going to pre-judge ourselves so that nobody else can hurt us, right?

Geri: And it doesn’t matter. You know, when I finally did my work, and I don’t want to totally get off topic with dating, but when I finally did my work, when I had a date with somebody – this is so true. I met him and he’s like, I’ve got to go. And he left me sitting there with a glass and all I could do was laugh because I totally knew that he looked at me, judged me, and I had done so much work that it didn’t matter to me. Like, that would have been devastating years ago. So the message for our daughters is around all of this stuff, right? It’s in many ways no different, it’s go out and live – do the things that you want, work that you want, and you know, have the friendships you want and try the styles on that you like and see how they feel on you and if it’s a good fit for you. If it doesn’t feel good in your body, if you’re wearing the shorts and you love them, then wear them. I see it oftentimes, I want to say in like, Latin communities, those women have such – they rock such body image.

Jill: I think – yeah, and I think one thing that we’re taught at least at our age, and I’ve read all the articles that like, oh, how to dress for your shape, how to cover up your problem areas, and what I’ve realized as I turned 50, like, I’m so fucking done with all that stuff. Like, I’m not all about like, dressing to make myself look thinner. I’m about dressing myself in clothes that I think are beautiful, that make me happy.

Geri: Yes.

Jill: And that’s a message that I think is lost on teen girls, maybe because they think that – like, they get the messaging from their mom, from social media, or whatever that they have to look and be as thin as possible to fit in. And so you know, we teach them like, oh, every time I see a Cosmo that’s like, dress for your problem areas, I’m like, fuck you, Cosmo. None of my areas…

Geri: All of them, Cosmo, Glamour, all of it. Like, dress for your problem areas. But you know, on the other side of it, there’s some hope. Like, there’s some hope. There are plus size bikinis out there.

Jill: I have one.

Geri: Yeah okay, like they weren’t – and they weren’t for years so that’s an amazing thing. I think – and in high schools today, what I observe is there’s, you know, along with gender acceptance, regardless of your sexuality, you know, I think kids are much more accepting of everybody. They just – of everybody else, they just struggle with accepting themselves. But the overall environment is I think more positive. I know that in social media you can always look for the dark. And you know, that’s a conversation I had with my daughter. It was like, why do you want to look for the dark? Why do you want to choose to hate your body?

Jill: That’s a great question.

Geri: Why are you choosing that? And is it – the other question that I think is great for teens, is it really true question. Is it really true? So there’s always the – I think about when we were growing up in high school, there’s always someone who would say, “I’m so fat,” and I would just look at them and be like, sister, I want to be fat like you’re not. So really look at why you’re saying that and is it really true? Is it true on an objective fact-based level? Like, would other people say that that’s true?

Jill: Could you prove it in a court of law?

Geri: Could you prove it in a court of law and…

Jill: I’m so fat is never provable in a court of law because everybody would disagree on what that is, right?

Geri: Completely. Completely.

Jill: Alright, so I have quite a few questions that listeners have posted on Facebook. Is it okay if we go through a few of them? Because I think that…

Geri: Let’s do it.

Jill: Yeah, for every one of those questions, there’s probably like, 10 people asking it. Okay, so we talked – my friend Karen asked about the pressure on girls to fit in, we’ve answered that one. Ellie asks, “So my daughter just turned 12 and there’s an issue with the number on the scale.” Now, Ellie doesn’t own a scale. She hasn’t owned one for years, she doesn’t weigh herself, but her daughter was very afraid of breaking the 100-pound mark, and Ellie believes that that contributed to her daughter’s eating disorder. And she doesn’t want her daughter to obsess about a number, she wants her to understand how it’s more how she feels about herself that’s important. But you know, Ellie’s question is I think it’s peer pressure that started her obsession about it, and where does she go from there? Because she actually doesn’t see Ellie weighing herself, she doesn’t see Ellie talking about losing weight or anything like that. So where is she getting it and like, how does Ellie get across to her that the number of the scale does not matter, does not define her?

Geri: So Ellie, if Ellie is listening to this, you know, hit me up for a worksheet and I will send it to you. But I will sort of talk you through it. I think it’s great that she knows that her daughter is having the issue. That in and of itself is really amazing. And I think the question for your daughter is what is she making 100 pounds mean? Like, what is she making it mean? And what’s behind that? Like, that is the question to ask her. Just gently. What does it mean if you were 101 pounds? What would that mean to you? And then why? What if that wasn’t true? And just kind of nibble away at it a little bit.

Jill: So not necessarily what if it wasn’t true that she weighed 101 pounds but what if it wasn’t true – whatever she’s making it…

Geri: Whatever she’s thinking, whatever it is that she’s making it mean, what if that just wasn’t true? What if that was just something that she was choosing to think?

Jill: I love that.

Geri: Right?

Jill: So the worksheet you have, does that kind of go through…

Geri: It’s that kind of thing, yeah.

Jill: Oh, I love that. Alright, so anybody – Ellie and anybody…

Geri: Actually, you know what, I’ll just give you a PDF of it and you could put it in the – either the show notes or…

Jill: I’m just going to send them over to your blog and people can…

Geri: Super.

Jill: So much better to have them like – because then they can read about all the other resources that you have. But we’ll put that link in the show notes for sure. Okay, so Nancy asks – now, and I’ve met Nancy’s daughter. She is just the most adorable thing ever. So anyway, Nancy asks if her daughter has decided to lose weight, that she wants to lose weight, how do you help her do that without putting too much emphasis on it? And Nancy wants her daughter to come to her for help and let Nancy help her rather than have her go behind her back and engage in maybe unhealthy or possibly dangerous activities. I think we’re probably talking all that wacky stuff that we see on the internet.

Geri: All the wacky stuff, yeah.

Jill: Romaine and cinnamon diet, which sounds totally disgusting.

Geri: Can you imagine?

Jill: I’m all for cinnamon and all for romaine, but I feel like those two as a meal…

Geri: They should not really – they should not meet. They are from different planets.

Jill: Yes.

Geri: And you know, I think about all the stupid things I did as a teenager to lose weight, and so I honor Nancy for not wanting to go that direction. I think it’s evolution, not revolution. I really do. I believe fundamentally that if you want to make a change in your eating habits and your daughter’s eating habits, just slow. What’s a couple of things that you can change up in the family diet? And you may only have control over – certainly my house, you know, what my daughter eats when she walks out the door is – I have no idea, but dinner, you know, try to make that meal healthier. You know, sort of, you know, we have a friend who talks about good, better, best when it comes to food choices so like, good, better, best.

Jill: And that’s Corinne Crabtree, right?

Geri: Yes. So meet your family where you are and start making changes to your diet from there. And incorporate more health – you know, more fuel foods. What feels good for your child and sort of help her along that journey rather than the – you know, Draconian let’s go to 500 calories because kids will totally do that, and they will lose their muscle tone. And you know, one of the things that turned around for my daughter was that her doctor told her that her heart was a muscle. Yeah, and she realized that she was, you know – the heart was a muscle just like any other. And so when she was starving herself and the body was going to consume muscle…

Jill: And that was impacting her skating ability. Yeah, so I mean, that’s a good point. Like, if – can you figure out if something that your child is doing is impacting their ability to do something that they love? Like, in your daughter’s case it’s skating, you know, in somebody else’s child’s case it might be you know, something else. Are their eating habits impacting their ability to do something else and can you kind of show them?

Geri: Exactly. You know, my kid fell asleep on the stairs. That was another cue that I had. I was like, hmm, you know, and she couldn’t do the things that she wanted to do. She was really, really, really tired. And when she started to fuel herself again with the three things at each meal, she started to fuel herself, she immediately felt better, and her brain felt better, and her emotions stabilized. So kids are – you know, when they’re starving themselves, they don’t realize that, you know, at this time when their hormones are growing and changing, that very much contributes to the dark place.

Jill: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, we don’t realize…

Geri: So change it up just a little bit at a time.

Jill: So evolution, not revolution.

Geri: Revolution being you know, whatever Draconian things is currently out there.

Jill: I love that. That’s an easy thing to remember too, an easy saying to teach your child, for sure. You can even like, print it out and put it on your fridge.

Geri: Completely.

Jill: Okay, so I have another question from Kristie who asks – maybe this is less of a question and more of a wakeup call that she had. She said, “My biggest challenge is modeling that body positive behavior in front of my daughter.” So one evening before work, her daughter caught her mumbling to herself, “I look awful,” and her daughter walked away at that moment, but when Kristie got to her office, and she works from home, her daughter had gone in and left a note on her desk that said mommy is beautiful. So in this case, we have the daughter noticing the mom kind of talking negatively about herself, and like how – I think that would have been – if that were my daughter, that would for sure have been a big wakeup call but like, what if your daughter is noticing it but is not telling you about it? Like, what advice would you have for Kristie going forward?

Geri: Well, that’s your wakeup call. When your child comes to you and says you’re beautiful, that’s your wakeup call that you have work to do to believe that you are beautiful yourself in whatever your current body is, and that you’re worthy of love and to look at your own thinking. Like, that’s your inner critic telling you – you know, your inner mean girl, and you know, the work is learning to silence it and recognize it as an optional thought and say, okay, that’s just not true. Right? You know, I look great today, I feel great, I’m doing the work, I’m learning to love my body. That’s the stuff that we need to do. Because when our kids catch us, then yeah…

Jill: That’s it right there. Like, I think – you hit the nail on the head. It’s so – helping your kids with their body image issues starts with you working on your own.

Geri: Because like, if my daughter hears me beat myself up, why would she then not – why would then she not think that that was okay? We’re still – despite social media, we are still the major role model for our kids. Even if they don’t know it, we have much more influence on their behavior than I think people realize.

Jill: That’s good to know, for sure. Okay, I have another question from Nicky who says, “What do you say when your child believes they are overweight but you know that they are actually a perfectly healthy weight for their age?”

Geri: That comes back to that question, you know, why are you choosing to believe that? What do you think it means? What is overweight?

Jill: Right.

Geri: What is it that you think you should look at – my child wanted to get to 95 pounds. And she had no idea like, what that really meant. She just thought that looked like a really good number, like, under 100 pounds.

Jill: Right, it’s that 100 pounds mark. I think for teenagers, the 100-pound mark and for adults, it’s the 200-pound mark.

Geri: Yeah.

Jill: Like, so many of my girlfriends who maybe they weigh 180 or 190 and like, I hear them say, “Well, at least I’m not over 200.” I’m like, really if you weigh 199 versus 201, like, there’s no difference, like it’s just this weird arbitrary thing, and I think it’s interesting that teen girls are doing the same with thing that…

Geri: Why do you want to believe you’re overweight? What would not overweight look like to you? You know, is it triple zero, whatever sizes are all messed up, we could have a whole conversation about that. What does overweight mean to you? What does it look like? What would it be for you to not be overweight? Like, that would be really interesting to hear. And I’m not sure that a lot of teens can really articulate it but it’s a conversation to try and have.

Jill: I mean, it sounds to me like one of the best things you can do for your child is just to keep – you know, when they say like, I don’t measure up, I’m unhappy about this aspect of myself, whatever it is, even if it’s not weight, even if it’s something else…

Geri: Whatever it is, yeah.

Jill: Ask them like, why that’s so important to them, what are they making it mean that they don’t fit the mold, and is it even true, right? Like, are you eve – at 95 pounds or 100 pounds and 5’5″ like, that’s not overweight. Like, why are they choosing to believe that? But like, asking them so many questions about it.

Geri: And teens are so all or nothing, right? So you know, I think my daughter worked for 18 months to land a particular jump in skating and she failed – like, hundreds of times fell on her ass. And I was really happy about that because I use it as a teaching tool all the time. Teenagers forget like, that, you know, we learn from failure. You know, we know because you know, we wouldn’t have iPhones today if Steve Jobs hadn’t decided to fail fast along the way and learn from every failure. And so I – when I talk to clients, it’s – I’m like, what did you learn from your last five weight loss attempts? What did you do? How did you show up? So if your teen wants to get somewhere with losing weight and they’re not like, ask them to really look at it. It’s not all or nothing. Like, what are you learning all the way, and what are you willing to practice and not be good at until you get good at it.

Jill: Yeah, so good. Good for everything. Okay, I have one final question before we wrap up today, and this is from Sarah. I mean, this is an amazing question, and I think when I was at that age, this wasn’t even something that entered in my mind but I’m sure it was in my mom’s mind. So she says, “I wonder about sexualizing my 11-year-old daughter. I don’t want her to wear inappropriate clothing, but why not? Because it will distract the boys, is that why I don’t want her to wear it? Because if she dresses a certain way it sends a message about her availability?” She says, “I don’t believe in that shit but I guess when it comes to my daughter, I have trouble navigating it.” But she says, “I’m not sure what my actual question is, but I would appreciate some discussion around this.”

Geri: Oh god, I am completely with you, Sarah. Because you know, my kid went to school yesterday and I was like, “Can you pull those shorts down a little bit?” Or she was wearing a top, the arms cut really low and I’m like, people can see all your business, can you like – and I went out and bought her a bunch of sports bra that she would wear underneath so I’m so in this right with you. You know, I think girls today are challenging, you know, the sexualization of the female body in ways that I think are terrific. And like, my daughter certainly believes that she should be able to wear anything that she wants to school. We have a lot of discussion about, you know, save it for a nightclub, school’s a place for learning, it’s not a fashion show, but like, you know, that all doesn’t really fly because it is really their fashion show. It’s like – you know, and it’s their way of expression. And we’ve talked a fair bit about boys and what the boys might think, and she’s like, “You know what, I don’t care what they think.” So I’m like, thank you god, thank you so much. And isn’t that like, to the root of Sarah’s question? Like, why do we want to teach our girls to dress in a way that’ll be okay for boys so boys don’t have thoughts?

Jill: Right, why do we want to manipulate the boys with how we dress?

Geri: Well, I don’t even know if it’s that so much as maybe the boys need to get with their thinking.

Jill: Right, exactly.

Geri: You know, like, that’s the whole – you know, all my life, you know, we were taught not to wear certain things because it was too suggestive. I even remember there was a whole issue in my high school about, you know, somebody “asking for it” back in the day. So the clothes you’re wearing – I think Sarah’s question comes to like, you know, if you’re wearing x, y, z, shorts and a crop top, are you asking for it? No, you’re not, right? And the whole Me Too movement is around we have our own power. We should be able to wear what we want and know that our bodies are ours, safe and sacrosanct.

Jill: So how do you help a mom who’s, you know, kind of struggling with this? Because she wants to believe what you just said, but then on the flipside she’s like, yeah, but.

Geri: Well, I still have my yeah but too. I’m like, yeah but like, just don’t. Like, I think it’s a choice. I think we really need to decide how we want our kids to be, and I think we really need to decide how we want our kids to be, and I think there is still – you know, I have sent my daughter up to change but they’re learning to express themselves so they need a little bit of guidance and I try not to say too much about what Kate wears unless I think it’s just stepped over the line. Because they’re like, just pushing boundaries, and they’re pushing boundaries with clothing, and it’s their way of expression. So you know, most of the time I let it go, and then I’ll watch her like, messing with herself and I’m like, it wasn’t really that comfortable for you, was it? So I think it’s that is like, are you really going to be comfortable in this? There are some questions to ask. Are you really going to be comfortable in this? Is this really okay? Could you consider that? Not for anything other than their own comfort. Like, I don’t think we can get into so that boys don’t make inappropriate remarks or have thoughts because we’re busy telling them, you know, not to worry about like, what other people are thinking is not our business.

Jill: Right. And not to say like, you shouldn’t wear that because it’s slutty or it’s, you know, provocative or whatever, like, taking all that out of it and…

Geri: Take all that out of it. It’s like, is it comfortable? Is this really who you want to be? Like, does this feel like what you want to express today? You know, this is murky territory and I’m not even sure I have a great answer for Sarah, but I’m right in the pool with her. In it like I want my daughter to not have to go through Me Too experiences and all the other things that I went through and I want her to wear whatever she wants and feel good in it. And most of that involves like, me stepping back and letting her find it because she will.

Jill: Yeah, you’re right, and having like – knowing like, I’ve given her all the tools, she will find it on her own.

Geri: Well, she will find it on her own, and knowing that she can come back and have, you know, the conversation with me. And we do have conversations. Mostly when we get in the car. You know, when there’s no WiFi I get my kid’s attention. That’s when we get some of these conversations. I should just plan a drive to Chicago so we can do that.

Jill: Well, so what I’m hearing from you is a lot of like, be there to guide but we don’t put our own opinions on our kids. We are just there to allow them to reflect their opinions off of us and help us explore what it means to them and so forth. And then if you feel like they’re getting into some dangerous territory, obviously, you know, like with an eating disorder or something, you’re going to bring them around, bring them around. But a lot of it is just helping our kids understand who they are and who they want to be and how they want to express themselves without being too concerned about how other people are going to perceive them.

Geri: Yeah, if their thinking is really negative, you may not see it and know what it is, but if you do see it, the question – you know, why are you choosing that? That’s the really good – like, why are you choosing to believe that? What are you getting out of it? What are you making it mean?

Jill: Yes, so good.

Geri: Those are like, the big questions, like, to have a conversation without judgment and with love. And just, what if you didn’t believe that? Because you know, again, kids are all or nothing, black or white.

Jill: I love that question. What if you didn’t believe that? That’s so powerful because I think they don’t always realize they have the option to choose their beliefs. And by giving them that, what if you didn’t believe that, they get to – like, wait, what? That’s not a fact? That’s just my opinion? It’s so powerful.

Geri: It’s so powerful. So you know, today my daughter, who met with the doctor, said that she no longer has body image issues, and I can sort of tell by the things she’s wearing and the way she carries herself that she esteems herself a lot more. She knows she has a strong body that’s carrying her to do the things she wants to do. She is still working on, you know, eating better, her nutrition’s kind of like, teenage-y, and she is much better abled to hear what’s going on with her friends, the negative beliefs in the team. You know, we coach a lot on negativity. I sometimes just leave Brooke Castillo’s podcast on in the…

Jill: Love that. Love that.

Geri: And I’ve heard her coach her friends, you know, when they beat each other up. So this is the work that we’re doing with the team this year is like, just helping them understand that they have more choice in what they believe than they think they do.

Jill: So good.

Geri: Yeah.

Jill: So good. Alright, well I’m going to leave it on that because I think that’s a really powerful statement. They have more choice than they believe they think they do. And as a mom, it’s just your job to show them that.

Geri: Show them that and to do our own work. And how are we showing up? In what ways do we need to do that work on, you know, our body image and our weight and how we think about ourselves and how we’re living our lives, and whether we’re hiding behind the camera or, you know, behind the baggy clothes or whatever it is. That’s the work we do. That’s the work I teach.

Jill: So good. Alright, so we’re going to provide a link to the worksheet for how to talk to your daughter about that scale and I know you’ve probably got some other tools that would be super helpful for the folks that are listening to this, so what is your website? How can people get in touch with you?

Geri: So my website is gerigibbons.com, and you can subscribe there to my list and get five mindset secrets for permanent weight loss, which cover a lot of the things we’ve talked about here. And when you subscribe you get my Motivation Monday coaching tips.

Jill: Awesome.

Geri: You can also find me on Facebook as Coach Geri Gibbons and like, let’s you know, continue to have this conversation because I think it’s really important.

Jill: Yeah, for sure.

Geri: How we talk to our kids is a reflection – you know, let’s not make it a reflection of how we talk to ourselves.

Jill: Yeah. And if somebody wants to work with you but they’re not necessarily interested in losing weight, do you still do mindset coaching and…

Geri: Absolutely, 100%. I’ve worked with people on career, on balancing their lives, and you know, finding the life that they want.

Jill: I love that so much. So very good. Okay, so you guys, gerigibbons.com, and I’m going to have links to everything in the show notes. I’m also going to have a link to the talking to your daughter about the scale as well, and yeah, also I’ll have links to all of Geri’s Facebook and Instagram and all that good stuff. Are you on Instagram? I didn’t even ask.

Geri: I am on Instagram.

Jill: Of course.

Geri: It’s gericgibbons on Instagram.

Jill: Gericgibbons on Instagram. Actually, I’m going to follow you today because I did not realize you had an Instagram and I can’t believe I’ve been missing out on all of this goodness. Alright, so that’s a wrap for today. Is there anything else that you want to share with our folks? Any last words of wisdom?

Geri: Oh, I could give you guys tons of my wisdom but like, you know, come and let’s get to know each other a little bit more.

Jill: I love it. I love it you guys, get to know Geri. She’s amazing and she’s beautiful and she’s super fun.

Geri: I love you, thank you.

Jill: I love you too.

Geri: So much fun doing this.

Jill: Alright, thank you so much for being here with us Geri, and yeah, I can’t wait until this episode drops because I think it’s going to be really helpful.

Geri: Me too.

Jill: Bye.

Hey rebels, I hope you enjoyed my chat with Geri, and if you want to get more of her magic, you can find her at gerigibbons.com. And of course, you can find her on Facebook. You can find the worksheet that she talked about that we mentioned in the interview. It’s in the show notes, there will be a link to that in the show notes. All of these links you can find at notyouraveragerunner.com/24.

And don’t forget, if you loved what Geri had to say today and you want to attend a private class with her on this very topic, make sure you join Run Your Best Life. The class is on June 24th and just in case you’re listening to this after that time, like I mentioned before, all the classes that we give, all the special bonus classes as well as the live coaching calls are all recorded so you can join Run Your Best Life right now and get immediate access to literally every class we’ve ever done. It’s all there waiting for you and it’s at runyourbestlife.com but I want you to make sure you check out the show notes and go check out all of Geri’s stuff because she is an amazing coach, she knows her shit. And I know that she’s got something just for you. I’ll talk to you next week. Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of The Not Your Average Runner Podcast. If you liked what you heard and want more, head over to www.notyouraveragerunner.com to download your free one-week jumpstart plan and get started running today.