Ep #179: A Conversation About Weight with Jennifer Lamplough

Welcome to The Not Your Average Runner Podcast. If you’re a woman who has never felt athletic, but you still dream about becoming a runner, you are in the right place. I’m Jill Angie, a certified running and life coach and I teach women how to start running, feel confident, and change their lives, and now I want to help you.

Jill: Hey Rebels. So I’m here this week with the one and only, the fabulous Jennifer Lamplough. Y’all know who she is. She is one of the fantastic coaches within the Run Your Best Life program and she’s a good friend of mine. She’s a big part of the Not Your Average Runner team, and so we’re just going to chat this week about weight gain and your doctor and all the things. All the things about gaining weight.

And the reason we wanted to talk about this is because it’s a topic that’s been on everybody’s mind. We’re just coming – we’re still in the middle of a pandemic and you cannot scroll for more than two seconds on Facebook without seeing a meme about not being able to put on your pants anymore.

So thanks for joining me, Jen. This topic was your suggestion and I love it so much because I have a lot of similar thoughts about it. So why don’t we start with you kind of bringing everybody up to speed on why we’re talking about this today?

Jen: Sure. Well, thanks for having me. You know I love being on the podcast with you, it’s one of my favorite things to do in the whole world because it’s just like sitting and talking with your BFF so that’s the nice thing. So I appreciate that, but we haven’t done one in a while so I’m excited to be here and be doing this with you.

So I had my annual physical. I get an annual checkup every year, which everybody should. And I know a lot of people don’t for numerous reasons. Mine happened to be the day after Thanksgiving, and as I was driving to the doctor…

Jill: What the fuck were you thinking?

Jen: I was like, who the hell schedules her annual physical the day after Thanksgiving? My blood pipe is gravy and the turkey brine salt weight gain. I was thinking this, and then I started getting nervous and panicky. And I was like, this is not a good feeling.

And I’ve had this feeling before and anybody who’s even gained a pound, whether you’re overweight or underweight or anything, anybody who is either had some sort of change happen that might be considered negative by your doctor or by you has had this feeling. You’re like, you’re going to make me feel bad about – you can’t always pinpoint what the feeling is, but it’s shame.

I’m going to be made to feel ashamed of, fill in the blank, whatever it is. I’m too thin, I’m too fat, I’m too whatever. And I love my doctor, she is amazing, she is not a fat shamed, she is very progressive, she is always on my side. She wants to do whatever I can to make sure I’m healthy, she loves my working out, she doesn’t question that I’m actually a runner even though I’m overweight. She’s amazing.

And I know this about her, but I still had these feelings of anxiety of being shamed because I knew, A, I had gained weight. So I had gained the “COVID” weight. It was the day after Thanksgiving. And it’s like, not ideal weighing self situations, like not first thing in the morning after you’ve gone to the bathroom and you’re about to get in the shower and you’re naked. That’s your best weight, middle of the week, right?

This was the absolute worst time to actually be weighed. And so I just started having all this anxiety and I almost called and canceled my appointment. I’m like, I’m just going to reschedule because it’s the day after Thanksgiving, what was I thinking, I had this thought and I was like, are you a fucking idiot? This is your annual physical, this is your wellness checkup to make sure – you’re a 46-year-old woman who has a family history of diabetes and heart disease.

We’re in the middle of a pandemic, I have excellent health insurance, my wellness checkups are free, and I was considering not going because the scale was probably going to be up five pounds and not one person was going to say a word about it. And I had this thought of like, that’s really, really messed up.

And how many other people feel that way at any given time? How many people don’t go to the doctor because they don’t want to be questioned about their diet or exercise? How many people don’t go to the doctor because they don’t want to face the scale? How many people don’t go to the doctor?

And mine was around the doctor because that’s what I was doing at that time, but fill in the blank there too, right? How many people don’t ask for what they really want because they don’t think they deserve it? How many people don’t put themselves out there to date or even just to get some action because they think they’re fat and they’re not going to get it?

I mean, it’s like, fill in the blank for whatever it is. Mine happened to be around my physical health, and that’s scary. I would risk my physical health so that I didn’t have to potentially be questioned by someone who I know wouldn’t question me about a five-pound weight gain. And I thought of you and I was like, we have to talk about this because I know other people are thinking this.

I know other people are doing this. You and I have talked about it and I know other people have talked about it. And you did a podcast, I don’t know how many months back about fat shaming and that you can’t be fat shamed because fat shaming is in your head. And I know that was a very controversial topic for you, and it all just sort of – I texted you I think on my way there. I think I was driving and voice texting you. I’m like, we have to do a podcast, don’t let me forget to tell you what this is about.

Jill: Well, and it’s funny that you should mention that because yeah, I did do a podcast called There’s No Such Thing as Fat-Shaming because I wanted to clarify to people that somebody can say words to you, somebody can literally call you fat and the only way you’re going to feel shame is if you have a thought about it that this is wrong, I shouldn’t be fat, I’m embarrassed.

And fat shaming is something we do to ourselves. It’s something we take somebody else’s words and make it mean that we should be ashamed. I’m not saying it’s okay for people to say any shit like that, but the part of the responsibility lies with us and what we make it mean. And I just think it’s fascinating that sometimes people don’t say anything and we’re like, oh, I can’t go because I might be fat shamed, or…

Jen: And that proves that we’re the only ones who can make us feel shame, right? Because my doctor was not going to say anything to me because she never does. In 10 years she never has. We’ve had conversations about it because I bring it up and I talk about it with her. But I know that she’s not going to try to make me feel badly about it. But the proof of that is that the only way you can feel shame is if you let yourself feel shame.

Jill: Because there’s plenty of people – I mean, I’ve definitely been called fat before and I’m like, okay, so?

Jen: People try to use shame as a tactic. They try to use it to be motivating. But that doesn’t work either. People try to do that, but you can only feel shame if you let yourself feel shame.

Jill: Yes, exactly.

Jen: And then when you do that, you let yourself feel shame, the limiting factor that creates for you in your life becomes exponential. So the first time you don’t go to the doctor because you’re ashamed of your weight gain, that starts a snowball effect of things happening. What if going to the doctor that day would have revealed that something was wrong and you could have caught it early, right?

Now you put that appointment off and maybe you put it off for six months. Maybe you don’t go for another whole year. I mean, it’s like, that kind of stuff, how many people are getting more sick because of that than because of any other reason? And I know for a fact because I’ve done it myself, I’ve not gone to the doctor because I haven’t wanted to face that shame. And it’s self-imposed.

Jill: Right, and it’s so funny because you’re feeling the shame either way, whether you go to the doctor or not. And I have legit said that to myself in the past. I’ll make an appointment for three months out so I can lose weight first, which is – who cares what the doctor thinks?

It’s so fascinating. Why do I give a shit whether my doctor thinks I’m too fat or not? Their job is literally to treat me. To treat the symptoms I have or to treat the conditions that I have, or to tell me that there are none. Their job is not to give me some kind of moral judgment on whether I’m a terrible person for being overweight.

But here’s the thing; I don’t think – and you had this conversation with your doctor. So many doctors are very scared to actually say anything about weight to their patients because of this sort of phenomenon. So say more about that because you had a whole conversation with your doctor about it.

Jen: Yeah. I said to her, I said – I thanked her for not being like, the type of doctor who uses shame as a tactic because there are doctors who do that. I think they are fewer and far between now, but they still exist. So it’s like, find a new doctor, right? I finally found a doctor who suits me and we work well together and I’m healthy and we do all the right things.

So I thanked her for that and she was like, it’s funny that you thank me for that because I don’t – it’s so hard for me because an annual physical, I have to ask what you eat and I have to ask how often you exercise. Diet and exercise are part of your lifestyle and I need to know what’s happening. And when I ask certain people, they flip out when I ask those questions.

And I’m not asking them in a shaming way, I’m not asking – literally just say what is your diet and exercise. And she’s like, I had a patient who literally didn’t even say anything, just got up and walked out. Just walked out of her appointment because she asked her what her diet and exercise were.

Jill: And that person probably in her mind was like, how dare you? You can’t fat shame me, and left. And I get it because we live in a society where people are berated for their weight. They are told that – people say horrible things to overweight people.

Sometimes it blows my mind. So I need to talk about Peloton because apparently, I can’t go a podcast without talking about Peloton or Cheetos anymore. But the Peloton instructors, I don’t know, there’s maybe a dozen cycling instructors give or take. And the vast majority of them have a very typical athletic looking body. Visible musculature, most of the women wear just a sports bra with their tights and somehow, the dudes get away with wearing a baggy t-shirt. I don’t understand this.

But anyway, there’s one instructor, her name is Christine D’Ercole. And she’s their and I’m using air quotes for people who are listening, she’s their plus size instructor. And she’s maybe a size 12. At the most. I look at her body and I’m like, damn, this girl’s got a banging body. She looks amazing.

And I read some of the comments that people write about her and they’re like, I really wish that they wouldn’t hire instructors that are so overweight, and she’s so not. And she’s like, such a talented cyclist, she’s so powerful, she’s so athletic. She wins a lot of events because she’s so good. She maybe weighs 150 pounds.

Jen: Yeah. I mean, there’s a reason that people feel this way because people are awful about people who are overweight. A lot of people are. So it’s not that I don’t think it’s real and that it doesn’t exist, but my point is that it shouldn’t. You know what I mean? You shouldn’t let any of that keep you from advocating for yourself or protecting your health.

I mean, that’s the thing. I’m not saying that it’s not real, but it shouldn’t be the reason that you don’t take care of yourself or get what you want or ask for what you want or go out and get laid if you want, whatever it is. Do whatever you want. Sorry, that was crass, but you know what I’m saying.

Fat shaming is still okay with people. It’s one of those things that it’s getting better, but it’s still legitimate because people use “health,” but the fat shaming creates people to be more unhealthy because then they’re not doing things to make themselves healthy, like going to get their annual physical every year because they’re afraid to get on the scale.

Jill: And I think it’s because most of us are taught that other people can hurt our feelings, that other people can create our feelings. And so I think it’s important to understand that other people can say shitty things and will say shitty things. It’s none of your goddamn business.

But we’re so sensitive now, we’re like, how dare you? You can’t say that to me. And instead of managing our own feelings, we’re like, blaming the doctor who’s like, hey, by law this is the checklist I have to go through. So it’s sort of – I just feel like a lot of the doctors are between a rock and a hard place.

Jen: It’s a conundrum and it’s up to us to manage our own stuff. It doesn’t matter what your doctor asks you. I want to make sure that my health is intact and I’m not going to let the day after Thanksgiving five pounds keep me from doing that, although I almost did. I mean, that’s the problem. I had that thought of I don’t want to face this; I don’t want to see that number on the scale.

Jill: Have you heard – because I’ve heard horror stories about people who were overweight, a woman who’s like, 100 pounds overweight or 200 pounds overweight going to the doctor, saying I have this pain, I have this discomfort, and the doctor is saying you just need to lose weight. And the woman knows, no, something is really wrong. But she’s either uncomfortable with advocating for herself, or whatever, the doctor is very set in his or her ways, saying no, this is just a weight thing.

And then that person turns out to be actually have a significant condition that had nothing to do with their weight, that is life threatening. So I think in those kinds of situations, how do you advocate for yourself when your doctor dismisses your symptoms and says, look, I think that you just need to lose weight and gives you a diet plan and you’re like, something’s really wrong with me, like, please listen to me.

Jen: That’s called a second opinion. Yeah, I mean, it’s called a second opinion. You find somebody until – you know, your gut, your instincts know. But we have been taught to not listen to those things because of shame. And so you have to set the shame aside and if you know something is wrong and your doctor is telling you it’s just because you’re overweight, then you find a new doctor and you keep looking until you find the right doctor. And some people might disagree with that.

Jill: But don’t you think as women, we’re just like oh, alright, I don’t want to be perceived as a bitch.

Jen: Right. Or pushy or bossy.

Jill: Fuck that.

Jen: 100% fuck that.

Jill: So this was actually about five years ago, I asked my doctor if she would send me for an ultrasound stress test, basically where you get on the treadmill and do the stress test, but then right afterwards you hop down and they do a full ultrasound on your heart because I don’t know, my father died of a heart attack, heart disease runs in the family. And I was like, you know what, I’m coming up on 50, I should probably check this out.

So I go to get the test and it all starts with the nurse saying – as she’s getting the blood pressure cuff out, she’s like, “Oh, you’re a big girl, you’ll need the extra large one.” And I’m just like, okay. That’s how we’re going to roll. And I didn’t say anything, but whatever.

And she’s like, what do you do? And I’m like, I’m a running coach. The look on her face, she’s like, oh, interesting. Do you run? I’m like, as a matter of fact, I do. So I get on the treadmill, we do the test, I completely exceed their expectations of how far I’m going to be able to go. And they finish the test, and the doctor is just like, your heart is in excellent shape.

He’s like, there’s no sign of blockages, why are you here? And I said, well, heart disease runs in my family and I’ve gained some weight recently, so I felt a little bit more short of breath and I wasn’t sure if it was from gaining weight rapidly or something else, and he looks at me, he’s like, why would you gain weight? Why don’t you just lose it?

And I’m like, alright, we’re done here. I’m like, I’ve gotten all the information that I need from you and we’re done. And you don’t need to yell or lose your temper or anything, but I do think – same thing when I had my knee doctor. And I told him I’m going to be training for a marathon and he’s like, this is a terrible idea.

And I was like, okay, thank you, your opinion is noted and I left and I just found another doctor because I’m not going to stand up and yell and scream, but I’m also not going to stand for somebody implying that I’m not worthy of care just because I’m overweight, or there’s something I shouldn’t be doing because I’m overweight.

Jen: That’s why I wanted to have this conversation because nine out of 10 of us are not going to go find another doctor. We’re going to sit there and cower in shame.

Jill: Yeah. And I think we have this belief that I either need to make a scene and be loud about it, or I need to just capitulate and give in. And I think there’s another option where you say, okay, you’re just not the doctor for me. I’m going to find another.

Jen: It’s that simple, but we don’t always think of that answer because we’re trained to feel shame.

Jill: We are. We’re trained to feel shame. That’s such an interesting way to put it. I think you’re right. I think we are trained to feel shame and we don’t recognize that we have the option to feel confident and to feel entitled to medical care and entitled to our own opinions.

Maybe that’s part of it is we think the doctor knows more than me, and for sure the doctor’s obviously – you don’t go to a doctor because you’re like, I don’t know if this guy knows what he’s doing. You go because – but the doctor isn’t you. The doctor’s not in your body. So you have to really think through what’s important in the moment. And is it that the doctor has an opinion that you’re a model patient and you just do whatever you’re told, or do you really not care what the doctor thinks because your own health and your life is more important to you?

Jen: I just think we have to talk about this, and we have to keep talking about it. And I think it has to be talked about in a way where people can stop defaulting to believing the shame.

Jill: Yeah. And stop defaulting to – because this all started because we have been talking about people who gained weight during COVID. And as people have been coming to join the Rebel Runner Roadmap for this round, I’ve heard so many of them have said, “I’m not sure if I should do this because I gained weight during COVID, maybe I should lose weight first,” or just saying, “I need this because I’ve gained so much weight during COVID.”

And I’m like, no, you may have gained weight during COVID. That has nothing to do with whether you’re going to become a runner now. You become a runner because you want to become a runner. If you lose weight as a result of it, awesome. If you don’t, awesome. Do you need to lose weight before you start running? No. You just get to become a runner at whatever size you are.

Jen: And you don’t need to lose weight to do anything, to start anything. How many of us have been like, I’ll do this when I lose 10 pounds? Or I’ll schedule this three months from now so I can lose 10 pounds. Have you lost the 10 pounds in those three months every time you’ve done that scheduling?

Jill: I don’t think that ever works like that. I’m just going to buy these – this pair of pants that I like is on sale, but they don’t have my size on the website so I’m going to buy a size smaller and fit into it. I’m going to buy a size smaller and lose weight so I can wear a pair of $19 pants instead of just being like, obviously these aren’t the pants for me, I’m going to find a pair that fits me someplace else.

But do you think people avoid – what do you think people avoid doing because they think others are going to have opinions about their weight gain?

Jen: I think they avoid lots of stuff. I think they avoid asking for what they want, either in a relationship or at work or with a family member. That sort of thing. I think people don’t put themselves out there, either for dating or even just to have a little fun. They’re not worthy of going out and having a little bit of fun because it’s like, I need to lose five more pounds before I go on that dating app, or whatever.

I think it becomes this qualifier of I will reward myself with this after I do this thing, after I lose the weight, after I punish myself. And that again is all stemmed from shame.

Jill: It’s like, I can’t love myself unless I lose this weight. I’m not worthy of it until then. And you know what fascinates me, this is something I didn’t realize until maybe the past few years that those stories have nothing to do with our actual weight because I’ve met women who have what I would describe as a fabulous, flawless body, who are crippled with shame because they can’t fit into the size two jeans that they wore when they were 15 years old.

Jen: Exactly right. It’s not about being overweight. I have friends who are literally a size two and have made themselves sick by doing a juice cleanse because they were going to Florida for vacation and I don’t know, wanted to be a zero. I don’t know. That just shows you the deep level of ingrained sickness that this is. I mean, it really is this thing that we – and it’s all self-imposed. It’s all imposed also by society, but we do it to ourselves. We let it happen to ourselves.

And I’m not shaming people for letting them happen to themselves. We have to unlearn these things. I mean, it takes time and it takes effort to retrain your brain to be like, oh wait, I’m doing this to myself again, I need to change the way I’m thinking.

Jill: So let’s talk about some of the ways that you can retrain your brain because there’s one in particular that I’ve used over the past several years that has blown my mind in how affective it’s been, and that is I literally just deleted everybody from my Instagram that didn’t look like me.

I just took all of these fitness models and stuff, I’m like, you’re amazing, I don’t want to see you. I want to normalize other sized bodies in what I see. So then I followed so many different plus size accounts, plus size athletes, plus size models, just plus size people in general.

There are some smaller sized people on my feed for one reason or another, but it’s not – those aren’t the people I follow for inspiration. And I noticed about a year ago that I would occasionally see somebody that’s got a really ripped body or whatever, it would look so weird to me.

And I’m like, wow, that has been – because I think it’s been very helpful for me personally, especially when I got divorced and I started dating again and I was 50 years old, definitely not a size two, I don’t know how this is going to go. But I had so much confidence because I looked at other women my size and saw how beautiful they were. There’s one – oh my gosh, what is her name? I can’t think of her name. Her account is bodyposipanda. She’s freaking adorable. I love her.

And I just remember thinking like, if I could wake up with her body tomorrow, I’d be so stoked. And I’m like, wait, because five years ago I would have been like, oh no, I want to be much, much smaller, so it really works. Retraining your brain by just weeding out the messages that cause the problems in the first place and putting the messaging that you want to see in front of you. So that’s my kind of main hack and I swear by it and it’s fabulous. But what are your thoughts?

Jen: I will say, and I remember when you were going through that and you had started dating. You also were really, really intentional about your thoughts about yourself and your worthiness of dating. You worked really hard at that. You worked really hard at it and I remember that, and I remember really admiring that.

And I remember thinking like, she’s being very intentional about putting herself out there but also changing the way you thought about yourself and your worthiness of going out and dating and going on all these first dates and whatever. And putting yourself out there. So you also worked really hard at that part of it too.

Jill: For sure. And that’s a great point because I do remember thinking to myself like, I’m going to find the guy that I want to be with and part of that description of the perfect dude was that he thinks I’m a goddess. And so I mean, I went on Tinder, I went on Match, I went on Plenty of Fish, which god, I hated that one.

But I just remember thinking like, these are the qualities that I’m looking for in somebody, and one of those qualities was he thinks I’m a goddess. And so I mean, I can’t tell you how many dudes I swiped right on. Just hundreds. It was literally a numbers game. But if that dude wasn’t like, oh my god, you’re amazing, you’re beautiful, I was like, I don’t think this is going to work.

Jen: I haven’t dated in 17 years, but I remember dating and I remember being like, it was all about oh my god, am I good enough? Are they going to want me? What do I have to do to be what they want me to be? Yeah, granted I was a lot younger then too and I’m a different person now, but it’s – that mindset is that mind work about it and it’s dating, it’s advocating for a promotion at work, it’s applying for a job, it’s going to the doctor, it’s running for office, it’s just fill in the blank of any of those things.

And if your fear of shame for whatever reason, whether it’s weight or ability or intelligence or worthiness or any of those things, I think a lot of them go hand in hand, that limiting factor is going to compound itself over and over and over again.

Jill: Yeah. And I think confidence is the opposite of shame and confidence comes from believing I don’t need to be different to be worthy. I am more than enough as I am right now. And that takes practice. Because we’re not taught that.

Jen: I was not taught self-worth, and this is nothing to do with my parents, but it’s just the same that we’re raised. And I was not taught self-worth, and I know people who were taught self-worth and they think very differently of themselves.

Jill: Yeah, it’s fascinating. I was definitely taught that you need to be thin if you want to find a husband that’s like, attractive. If you’re not thin, you’re just going to have to settle. And you know what, I carried that into my first marriage. I was like, alright, I guess this is what I get.

Totally not the right match, but when I recognized oh, I just – instead of settling or changing myself, I get to have really high standards for who I want to be with, and I’d rather be alone than not be with that ideal person. That’s a game-changer. But the level of confidence that comes when you believe that, when you believe I’m so worthy of having either the perfect person or nothing, and I’m cool with either, the level of confidence that exudes from you when that happens is breathtaking.

Jen: And I think worth is the opposite of shame. And I think confidence is the byproduct of worth.

Jill: Yeah. A great way to put it.

Jen: So I just thought that we had to talk about this.

Jill: Well, what would you suggest for – what are some other ideas from you for how to shift your thinking?

Jen: I think you have to recognize that you’re doing it first. We don’t always know that that’s what we’re doing because we’re so trained, we’re so trained that the shame that is invoked in whatever causes our shame is true and real. So that’s the first step. It’s acknowledging, figuring out what’s causing that shame or that lack of self-worth and understanding what that is first and what’s causing it.

And then that’s where the mental work, everything that we teach to our clients about the mental work is then the next step. And it’s taking out the opinion about what it is and finding out what the circumstance is. I’m fat versus I weigh…

Jill: Exactly. Data versus opinion.

Jen: And weeding out other people’s opinions along with it.

Jill: For sure. One of my favorite things though is when we teach that to people in the Rebel Runner Roadmap and for the first time, they’re like, wait, what are you saying? Because it is kind of a mind-blower when people recognize that they’re sort of in charge of their thinking, that we’re not just magically born with all this confidence and everything.

Jen: It’s like, oh, well you’re confident because you have all this, this, this, and this. I can’t be confident like that because I don’t have that. It’s like nope, that’s actually bullshit. And I remember the moment you taught me, I was at one of our retreats and I can’t remember which one it was. It was somewhere, we were in a conference room and you were doing the thought work with me.

And it was about weight and my circumstance, my fact was that I’m fat. And you were like, that is not your circumstance. How much do you weigh? And so I said the number, you’re like, that’s your circumstance. And I said yeah, but that number means I’m fat. And you said no, it doesn’t. That number is a piece of data. You saying you’re fat is an opinion.

And I was like, no, no, that weight is fat. You’re like, no it’s not. You and I were arguing. And it finally clicked and I was like, oh my god, she’s right. And I remember just being mind-blown that data and opinions are two different things.

Jill: They really are. If I do nothing else on this planet before I leave it is to make sure that everybody I come into contact with understand that concept. Because if you can separate out your story, your opinions from the actual facts, half of the time, the story falls apart because you’re like, oh.

Jen: It’s all ingrained, taught, shame, and bullshit.

Jill: Yeah, it is. Oh my god. So this has been a great conversation and I think if there’s somebody listening who is thinking to themselves, “I need to lose weight before I start running,” or, “I can start running now but I can’t run in public until I lose weight,” any of that version of I’m too fat right now…

Jen: Or too whatever.

Jill: Right. When you think that, I need to change myself before I can start, then you feel kind of overwhelmed and disappointed and frustrated. And nobody takes action from that place. We think we can hate ourselves into taking action but we really can’t. So I want you to know that whatever the number is on the scale right now, whatever the size of your jeans is, whatever, you can be a runner.

Jen: You can.

Jill: You can be a weightlifter, you can be a triathlete, you can do it. You can. You don’t have to wait until you’re thinner. And I mean, I think there’s two reasons to wait until you’re thinner. There’s I’m going to ruin my knees, or it’s going to be too hard, and then there’s what are other people going to think? Other people’s opinions are none of your goddamn business.

Jen: Amen to that.

Jill: They really aren’t. Are you going to let some imaginary person’s thoughts about you or some other person’s thoughts about you that you don’t even know dictate what you do or don’t do in your life?

Jen: Or that you do know.

Jill: Or that you do. It’s like, oh, my mom thinks running is a terrible idea. Okay, I’m going to put her in charge. No, stop that shit right now. So yeah, do you have anything to add to this?

Jen: I don’t think so. I mean, I think this is a big conversation and I think this is the start of us continuing talking about this as we always do, but it was just such this epiphany moment for me of like, I am the one limiting myself and it’s nobody else’s fault but mine. And I’m the one who can control whether I feel shame or not and whether I advocate for myself or not.

And how many of us are not doing what we want to be doing or are meant to be doing or taking care of ourselves because of something dumb like a number on a scale?

Jill: Yeah. And I think that you can shift your thinking without the scale changing.

Jen: 100%. You can literally change it right now in this moment. And nothing else needs to change.

Jill: Exactly. So good. Alright, before we close out, I do want to mention to everybody listening that the Rebel Runner Roadmap, we talk about it a lot just because it’s such an awesome program, but it’s actually open for registration right now and class starts on January 18th, but enrollment closes on January 17th.

So I think this podcast is going to come out on the 14th, so there’s basically – if you’re listening to this on the day this podcast drops, you got three days to sign up. But the Roadmap to me is – the reason I love it is because we get all of these women who have maybe just started running or have never run or used to be runners and they’re coming back to it after a while, we get a lot of women who are like, I used to be a runner, but I’ve gained weight, and they’re beating themselves up because they’re like, I’m slower than I used to be.

They’re like, I used to be a runner 10 years ago and I gained all this weight and now I’m really slow. I’m like, you’re also 10 years older. But I think the most fun thing about the Roadmap is working with these women and helping them recognize that what they were able to do in the past is kind of irrelevant. We’re here now and like, this is the weight you’re at now. Let’s see what you can do in this body. Let’s have some fun with that.

Jen: And if you’re listening to this and you’re like, oh my gosh, this all makes sense but I don’t even know what the hell to do, this is literally a roadmap. This is about running, but it’s also about all of this stuff that we’ve been talking about today. And it’s a literal roadmap.

So if you’re a person like me who wants to be handed a checklist, and be like, here’s the things that you need to do, here’s your list, here’s your roadmap, here’s your guide.

Jill: And there actually is a checklist and I made it for this round, a checklist of like, do this, check it off, do this, check it off.

Jen: Literally the roadmap. Like, here’s your instruction manual on how to do this.

Jill: Yeah, it’s good stuff. So head over to rebelrunnerroadmap.com to sign up for that. If you’re listening to this after it starts, go to rebelrunnerroadmap.com, sign up for the waitlist because the next time it opens for new students, then we’ll send you an email and you can sign up then.

But if you’re listening to this before the 17th, before the 18th, rebelrunnerroadmap.com. I hope we see you there and thank you Jen again.

Jen: I know. It has been a long time since we’ve podcasted.

Jill: We have to talk a lot this coming year because we’re going back to Ragnar in September.

Jen: Back to the woods. But I appreciate you listening to me about this topic and letting us talk about it because it’s important and it’s something that I’m coping with now. I just got over COVID. I was in the hospital for a week and I’ve been on steroids for three weeks and I’ve gained a ton of weight and I feel awful. And so this is at the top of my mind too, so this is helpful for me to talk it out.

Jill: Well, what are you telling yourself about that?

Jen: I don’t know. My mental health isn’t great still from the COVID that I just went through. So I’m still kind of grappling with everything, but this right now, literally talking this out has actually helped me sort of formulate my thoughts too and I’m looking forward to the Rebel Runner Roadmap starting because I’m going to go through it with everybody.

Jill: Are you? Oh, that’s so…

Jen: Yeah, I’ve not gone through it as a participant. I’ve only ever done sort of the coaching side of it, so I’m actually going to go through it as a participant because I need the checklist right now because I’m mentally foggy and I’m trying to dig out of being living under water for almost a month it feels like.

Jill: It has been almost a month because you got diagnosed, what…

Jen: I started getting sick on the 10th and I tested positive on the 13th of December.

Jill: Oh right. So it literally has been almost a month.

Jen: And so I’m just now sort of digging out mentally and physically and I just stopped taking steroids yesterday after three straight weeks on steroids and so I’m kind of physically and mentally a little bit of a hot mess. And so having this conversation has helped me sort of articulate what I’ve been feeling and what I need.

And so then just now us talking about the Roadmap made me realize I’m going to go through this as a participant because I need it. I need the checklist, I need the Roadmap even though I know every letter of the Roadmap, I need to go through it as a participant so I’m going to do it as a participant this year.

Jill: That’s so fun because basically anybody who joins this round can be like, run with you this year. That’s so fun.

Jen: I’m excited.

Jill: And do you – I guess I was just going to say do you have any advice for people, but I think the advice is wear your fucking mask.

Jen: Wear your fucking mask.

Jill: Stay home and wear your fucking mask because it was touch and go for you.

Jen: Yeah. I mean, be a responsible human being. And I think most people are honestly, I really do. I think that this virus is insidious and there’s no – I have no idea where I got it and I’m so careful. And I know people who are not careful who haven’t gotten it and you just never know if you’re going to get it or not.

So be as responsible as possible and even if you think you have a twinge of getting sick, just stay home. Because I could have potentially infected a lot of people. It’s no joke.

Jill: Alright, well thank you again and…

Jen: Thank you because you and Andy were my lifesavers. Jill and Andy sent me my pulse socks and because I had that pulse socks, I knew how low my oxygen saturation was and that’s why I ended up going to the hospital in the ambulance. So Jill and Andy pretty much saved my life. And I’m not joking, they literally did. And just being there for me. So thank you for all of that.

Jill: Yeah. Well we’re just grateful that you made it through. Very grateful. Alright, well thank you for joining me. Everybody join the Rebel Runner Roadmap because you will get to experience Jen in all her brilliance and she’s making the best face right now. I wish the video came along with this but anyway, rebelrunnerroadmap.com, I hope we see you there.

And think about this conversation the next time you go to the doctor and your brain starts up some bullshit like oh, I’ve gained weight, I don’t want to go to the doctor, or I don’t want to go to the gym, or I don’t want to go out with my girlfriends that I haven’t seen in a while because they’re going to look at the size of my ass and judge me. Who cares? Live your life.

Jen: And be your own advocate.

Jill: Yes, exactly. Bye everyone.

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Oh, and one last thing. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, you have to check out the Rebel Runner Roadmap. It’s a 30-day online program that will teach you exactly how to start running, stick with it, and become the runner you’ve always wanted to be. Head on over to rebelrunnerroadmap.com to join. I’d love to be a part of your journey.